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Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby Roonzil » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:54 pm

The transition problems we're having now, reminds me a lot of what happened to the Dutch NT after Van Gaal left. The players were used to a very strict tactical system, with a coach who was demanding in every aspect of the game. After the World Cup in 2014 the Dutch squad got grandpa Hiddink, who was (like Ancelotti) about letting the talent speak for itself, and he emphasized a personal approach...result: the team had no clue how to play anymore. Tactics were all over the shop, and the Dutch NT didn't qualify for the Euros (ok, to be honest injuries and dumb mistakes were also an issue. But I'm absolutely sure the coach change was the number one cause).
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby FCB general » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:42 pm

Roonzil wrote:The transition problems we're having now, reminds me a lot of what happened to the Dutch NT after Van Gaal left. The players were used to a very strict tactical system, with a coach who was demanding in every aspect of the game. After the World Cup in 2014 the Dutch squad got grandpa Hiddink, who was (like Ancelotti) about letting the talent speak for itself, and he emphasized a personal approach...result: the team had no clue how to play anymore. Tactics were all over the shop, and the Dutch NT didn't qualify for the Euros (ok, to be honest injuries and dumb mistakes were also an issue. But I'm absolutely sure the coach change was the number one cause).

The WC bronze syndrome is responsible, believe me. :wink: We(Croatia) kept the coach after we beat you in 1998 and we didn't qualify for Euro 2000. The same happened to Turkey in 2002 and few more countries in the past.

You are not near as talented as you were in the period between 1980-2010. But that wasn't an excuse for Hiddink to end up below, not the 2nd spot, but the 3rd spot.


Regarding Bayern's situation... Guardiola didn't leave Bayern 'perfect' as Heynckes left Bayern to him. That's why I wanted Guardiola to stay for 2 more years to finish his work, but he took his feet to England.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby rthebest » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:01 pm

FCB general wrote:Regarding Bayern's situation... Guardiola didn't leave Bayern 'perfect' as Heynckes left Bayern to him. That's why I wanted Guardiola to stay for 2 more years to finish his work, but he took his feet to England.


I agree with you he should have stayed for another two years because you could see in third year the team was playing a better football than his first 2 years. I however give him credit for keeping the intensity high and for the fact that he works hard for what he believes.

on an unrelated note this is his response to PL being the most intense league.
http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-city/story/2974082/pep-guardiola-premier-league-not-more-intense-than-la-liga-bundesliga
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:07 pm

I dont get how Pep was left with a perfect team.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby rthebest » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:49 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:I dont get how Pep was left with a perfect team.


I was perfect it terms of harmony, balance, player form and results. But tactically Pep team was more versatile and mature. He needed two more years to replace older player and create the balance he wanted.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:03 pm

Thiagoalcantara wrote:But, one thing Carlo does not have is a fit Douglas Costa, who I thought was the best player in the first half of Europe.

That's a fair point but he's had a fit Ribery. Costa only played because Guardiola didn't have that. :P
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:05 pm

RAJBAYERN wrote:Part of the fault of this performance is the Board. I cant accept that they didnt sign another striker or winger. We lack of players in the offensive positions because most of them are almost injured.

I agree but at the same I think the tactics should be blamed much more. We need offensive alternatives for when our players are out of form... but then I look at Lewandowski and Muller's performances during the international break and compare them to their Bayern performances before AND after said break and I realise that it can't be just form.

That said, Lewandowski has been known to be a bit inconsistent so I'm not saying this is solely down to Ancelotti.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby MiaSanFCB » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:24 pm

RAJBAYERN wrote:Part of the fault of this performance is the Board. I cant accept that they didnt sign another striker or winger. We lack of players in the offensive positions because most of them are almost injured.


This. We keep losing good players to other teams in the transfer window because we don't put enough money (Kroos, Gundogan, De Bruyne), negotiate with the wrong agent (Dembele), we can't offer regular playing time in certain positions (Sané) or don't sign players from South America because we don't want to take risks (Gabriel Jesus).

We should have signed a striker, a winger and a proper replacement for Xabi Alonso in addition to Sanches and Hummels transfers. Instead, we keep playing with 3 or 4 +32-year-old players (in a declining part of their careers) in the starting lineup every week. All of them are playing important roles on the team and we even plan to renew with most of them, occuping spots in the squad.

Our board need to realize that the season begins in the transfer window and think about bringing some new blood to rejuvenate the squad and let them play not having them on the bench.

I know this is not the only reason of our current form, the coach has made many tactical mistakes so far and weird substitutions and some particular players are playing like sh*t, but this the thing that annoys me the most at the moment.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:03 am

I don't know if Pep should have stayed. Yes, we were improving, but IMO Pep was playing tactics which were directly against his believes (the importance of crossing in his last season, for instance). In my view, Pep left because the board wouldn't sign the players he wanted and thus he was forced to play in a style in which he did not believe.

Beyond that, yes I think Robbery, Lahm and Alonso are kinda holding us back. We should go for a few changes, including a true WC winger (like Alexis or Hazard) maybe a CAM (Özil, James, Isco) and a young RB (Kimmich, Bellerín, Aurier, idk). A CF wouldn't be on my priority list, but one who is willing to sit on the bench most of the season couldn't hurt. A CB might also be worth it, but I think Boa, Hummels, Javi and Badstuber are enough.

Overall I think the board needs to go for top transfers soon (not the likes of Costa or Xabi), and we need to push down the starting team's average age. Coman I approve cause he is a long term project with lots of potential.

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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:29 am

Couldn't agree more on your last point. We need to make a huge transfer, the kind that everyone talks about, and get a player who can make the difference on his own (but not a selfish one).
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:58 am

Well, we signed Hummels and Sanches. I think those two count as top transfers. I wasn't expecting us to make another big transfer last summer. Actually Sanches is probably Bayern's biggest transfer ever.

And I don't want us to become another City/Chelsea/Madrid/Barcelona. I like how we used to sign great or even world class players for reasonable amounts of money

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Our team lacks chemistry at the moment. Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Lahm, Mueller... that was a key part in our success. They knew the club, they knew each other very well and they had been playing the same football since they were teenagers.

Even if Thiago or Vidal are not too far from Kroos and Schweini in terms of quality, they lack that chemistry that made the team and specially the midfield work so well in the past.

I'd like to see more German players in this team. I was really impressed with Julian Draxler last year and I think he could be a good addition to this team as he has experience in BL, CL and with the NT. He's just wasting his time at Wolfsburg now.

And a backup striker would be good too.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby rthebest » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:38 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:I don't know if Pep should have stayed. Yes, we were improving, but IMO Pep was playing tactics which were directly against his believes (the importance of crossing in his last season, for instance). In my view, Pep left because the board wouldn't sign the players he wanted and thus he was forced to play in a style in which he did not believe.


I think he finally understood that he could never replicate what we had in Barcelona in terms of playing style anywhere, simply because he did not have the player who grow up playing that kind of game. He however managed to implement his principles of playing (i.e possession, positional play, pressing and etc) in Bayern. In fact he realised because of his players he can be tactically more flexible. I don't if you watch any of City matches but I have seen them sometime playing very fast counter attacks. This is what he learned from Bayern players and Bundesliga.

He made lots of mistake and crazy tactical tweaks till he got there, but we should forget Bayern was his first managerial job out of Barcelona and his second first team assignment. No we are comparing him with a seasoned coach who has managed in all top European leagues.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:16 am

I think most of the big signings during pep's tenure were more Bayern picks, moreso than Pep's picks.

Vidal, Gotze, Lewandowski and Benatia.

Outside of the Spainards, don't think Pep actually bought anyone. At City, I am sure he is the one who vouched for Jesus, Nolito and Bravo. (maybe gundogan, sane and stones as well)

However, Pep also had the power to offload Hart, Mangala and Bony and axe yaya without any problems. While Bayern has been an easy pick for top club in the world (with RM and Barcelona), right now, they are losing that distinction very fast. Jupp won the treble, but Pep made this team a consensus top 3 club for the last 3 years.
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:23 am

Lewandowski was clearly not Pep's transfer... but apart from him I think that he was a main factor in most of our other transfers like Costa, Coman, Vidal and of course Thiago. Not sure about Kimmich though
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Re: Carletto vs Pep: The DMZ thread is now open!

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:26 am

YlonenXabi wrote:Lewandowski was clearly not Pep's transfer... but apart from him I think that he was a main factor in most of our other transfers like Costa, Coman, Vidal and of course Thiago. Not sure about Kimmich though


I think he just wanted a winger and Coman was one of his choices, moreso than Pep wanted Coman like he wanted Neymar. I especially dont think Vidal was a Pep transfer at all. He doesn't play anything like a Pep player.
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