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[2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

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What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:00 pm

Borussia Dortmund will win the DFL Supercup 2014
3
10%
Bayern Munich will win the DFL Supercup 2014
26
90%
 
Total votes : 29

Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:29 pm

I think you were a bit too desperate about winning this....
Dortmund exploiting our weaknesses is far more valueble than winning this thing with a tactic we don't even plan to play. I think our plan B was the way we played in the cup final, can't deny it was different than the way we played against Madrid.
Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal, Thiago - Müller, James, Alexis - Lewandowski
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby FCB general » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:36 pm

No, not at all. I expected just performance, lost match wasn't important at all. We lost, ok but still the way how we played... :?
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby envagyokazapad » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:56 pm

bastos80 wrote:We tried to play like we plan to play when everyone is fit. Our midfield and attack looked hopeless and din't know what to do. Lewandowski got absolutly no support. Can only get better when the starters are back.


That's just the thing, and the main thing I'd take from this. Our squad depth is a myth...our 'B team' is perhaps slightly better than average...they just lack individual class and we don't have tactical strength to compensate that.
Dortmund is a great example especially today: they played a great game and I'd still have a hard time naming one or two players who really stood out...a great team performance over all. Their tactics really fit the team, they understand what they need to do and they pull it off fairly well.

I also don't believe that there's such thing as all players played a bad game...when everyone in a team plays bad, then there's a bigger issue there. Either you are tactically being outplayed or your players just don't understand what you want (in terms of tactics).

Our tactics don't need to work against everyone, because most teams we can beat even if we are at a tactical disadvantage. You only really need good tactics against the teams you need to challenge for the CL title, and maybe your biggest national rival (essentially that is what Jupp did - he spent 2 years working out a way to trash Barca because they were the team to beat for the CL). As it is, I just don't see how we could beat a team playing very good counter-attacking football, so that's a huge blow if we want to challenge for the CL, as Madrid will probably be the team to beat there (and there's Dortmund and Chelsea for instance).

We'll probably be there for the BuLi title...but for now I'm less optimistic about our chances in the CL.

Things will get better as the first team returns, though it's not a good sign that both Lahm and Boateng started showing signs of fatigue already. I'm not sure now that our squad depth is enough, especially if we want to play 3 at the back, with Javi now likely out for at least 6 months.

As for the players, hard to judge because we played a pretty bad game but...:
Alaba -> solid even as a CB, but most of his attacking qualities are completely gone this way
Rode -> works hard in defense, but can't really cope that well with huge pressure in the midfield, which shows in a lack of influence in attacks, misplaced passes...would be interesting to see him paired with Schweini or Lahm
Gaudino -> shows potential, but he doesn't look physically strong enough yet to play in this position on this level, perhaps played a little higher, ahead of a more defensive midfielder duo would work better with him
Bernat -> looks only a little better than average, lacks influence
Shaqiri -> as usual showcases a lot of skills and pace, but can't seem to influence the game at all
Lewa, Müller, Götze -> marked out, looks like Klopp did his homework

Over all...different players, different formation and our game still looks the same as it did a few months ago.
This time it's hard to blame Pep though...there was basically no off season, no time to work on the team at all, it's hard to expect improvement like that.

ps. most of this is not a response to your post, just didn't want to break it all up :mrgreen:
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby bastos80 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:01 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:That's just the thing, and the main thing I'd take from this. Our squad depth is a myth...our 'B team' is perhaps slightly better than average...they just lack individual class and we don't have tactical strength to compensate that.
Dortmund is a great example especially today: they played a great game and I'd still have a hard time naming one or two players who really stood out...a great team performance over all. Their tactics really fit the team, they understand what they need to do and they pull it off fairly well.


I don't think this matters as much, because there is a chance we'll never see that line-up again...

If our team is Neuer, Alaba, Martínez, Boateng, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Götze, Ribéry, Robben, Lewandowski we'd still have Badstuber, Dante, Reina, Rafinha, Bernat, Rode, Höjbjerg, Müller, Shaqiri and Pizarro on the bench...That is squad depth, not a myth..
Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal, Thiago - Müller, James, Alexis - Lewandowski
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby AvatarX » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:59 pm

With a 3-man defense (with Alaba as LCB, not LB), I can already smell another record lost in CL against teams like Real.

Hope we revert to 4 defenders tactics and get a decent CB with Martinez injured and Dante playing in a 1-7 mode.
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Kevinx67 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:31 am

The game is somewhat meaningless but if Bayern lose a few playing the Pep way will he change his tactics or go down in flames? Guardiola thinks he can take any player and play them anywhere on the pitch and they will perform. Watching Alaba dropping into a CD role shows no matter how good a footballer you are their is some positions you shouldn't be playing. It's no time to panic but would of like to see a better performance against Dortmund.
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby michel » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:24 am

Careless. Unsettled. Unfit. It was the state of FC Bayern München at the Supercup against Dortmund on Wednesday. Sharpness wasn’t there and the players didn’t even use the strengths of their 3-4-3.

More: Tactical analysis: Bayern’s basic failures against Dortmund at the Supercup
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby JANCKER » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:47 am

LEROI wrote:Let´s not make a big deal of it....the only real issue is what happened to Martinez, but lets take the best points from this match:
1. Guardiola has implemented an amazing system in which every single player plays somewhere they never played before, therefore its difficult for them to adapt.
2. Let´s not worry, the transfer market is open and is obvious that some players are still into Heynckes philosophy, so i think its obvious we need more Barca players or at least more spaniards
3. Bernat looks like the real deal, I mean with 33% aerial won (consider his height) and his tremendous defensive skill
4. We need Thiago so much, without him the team looks so shaky, since he arrived he showed the real passing standards
5. Its obvious that 654 passes are not enough, therefore we must bring Xavi
6. Bartra would be an ideal defensive addition, specially if the Martinez prognose is confirmed


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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby SilverX » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:23 am

Wow, what a disgraceful performance.

I do not understand why you take something that worked LIKE A GODLY MACHINE RUNNING ON ZEUS's OWN GODLY JUICE and fuc*ing break it.........

This is exactly what Pep is doing to the team that was the treble.... I don't get it and I don't understand why.....I get putting your own stamp or your own flare on the team, but come on man!!!!!!

Completely decimating teams in Europe and all of a sudden we go to a very shaky overall team even when all the stars are playing...... (Please see exp: Man U game, Arsenal, and Madrid, last years CL)

I'm very disappointed and sad, even though its a glorified friendly and all, but still, losing against Dortmund is barely bearable....
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:25 am

Der Bomber wrote:
Borusse wrote:So yeah, that was a solid game.


as solid as my bowel movement the morning after getting uber drunk.

Dammit dude. I am reading this while on the toilet and nursing a hangover from last night.
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:28 am

So, we sign a Liverpool footballer and suddenly we can't win cups.
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby BayernSupporter » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:05 am

I love how some people here took this match seriously. I didnt and i didnt even care if we lost. The Dortmund Killer Robben and one of our MVP's didnt play. I am not using this as an excuse but we all know for a fact what he has done against dortmund.
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:12 am

BayernSupporter wrote:we all know for a fact what he has done against dortmund

Good times, bad times.



but of course

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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby Ottomeister13 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:14 am

I say it again.. Dortmund had the whole pre season to practise with their squad.. We had 8 WC players that came back last thursday..

Anyway, let em have it, how much it sucks they won against Bayern, if we have the BL and DFB for sure at the end of the season.

Neuer was world class immediatly again, not only his normal saves, but the ball played back by Javi..

Boateng had good actions through out the game, but needs more practise to get 100%

Rode showed some good stuff defense wise same as Alaba.

Further than that, Gaudino may be a hopefull, but not for the next 2 or 3 seasons. You could see he is physically not in the spot to challenge ANYONE from BvB..

One player that really didnt impress me is Bernat. Very slow, bad crosses, couldn't pass his opponent at all and way to slacky before the cross that resulted in the 2-0..

Shaqiri showed some nice stuff aswell, but the longer the match took, the more solo he went.

I am not worried THAT much yet, though it is on the verge it could be a disaster this season with the injury's.. Sunday shouldnt be a problem and till Wolfsburg it's still 7 days...
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Re: [2014-08-13] Borussia Dortmund vs Bayern Munich

Postby tflags » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:55 am

MUTU wrote:Dammit dude. I am reading this while on the toilet and nursing a hangover from last night.


Were you celebrating or drink&forget?
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