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Re: Politics Thread

Postby #12 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:45 pm

ramsej84 wrote:I wish you are right but don't you think that you, on the other part are being taken for a ride by the liberals... You are going to end up in minority... actually all of Europe will end up like that thanks to your country...
Those who have some sense are not asking to kill anybody but to expell the uninvited and stop letting ppl in that is all... what is wrong with that... ? I am no one to say what you need to do... if you are happy enjoy it... but Germany is not the same I guess that even tourist wise you will see less ppl coming.
Some wks ago I heard someone saying that he could not recognize the city of Munich ... :evil:


No idea what kind of people you're talking to... :lol: :lol: :lol:
We are 80 Million... It's gonna be a long ass time before we'll make up a minority here... ;) And even if we were... So long as everyone is living according to the Grundgesetz, I don't give a ****... What's so great about being a majority? :) Also, none of us are natives here... We're an occupation force, like it or not... ;)
And please stop acting, like "you" - and those who think like you - are the ones with some sense and the others are stupid... Being or following "liberal" ideas, as you say, is hard... It's not easy, we don't 100% know for sure if it will turn out fin, if it will work, and we have to work to MAKE IT WORK... But your way... We've already been down that road, and WE KNOW it's not working... It's there for everyone to see... So please don't you accuse me - and others - of being senseless... ;)
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:13 pm

harry-muc wrote:dont worry, i still recognize my city. i had muslim friends 20 years ago and still have...and if some other muslim, christ or jew **** with me he gets a "watsch"...easy as that. :mrgreen:

Not the ones who have been living there for 50 or 60 years ago you have to worry about but the ones who came in 2015!
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby #12 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:33 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Not the ones who have been living there for 50 or 60 years ago you have to worry about but the ones who came in 2015!


Why? Do you have an actual reason? Or proof? Or is it just a projection of your - justified - fear and anxieties?
Because honestly: no one is saying we don't have to face a huge task... Or that we don't have problems - we do! But again: this is still a safe place, a safe country, and a country where there's generally respect and peace among its population...
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:42 pm

even Paris was liKe that... and by saying this I am going back to what I previously said...cause the ones who committed those atrocities four months ago were born there. Now you can't do much about such ppl but you can try to filter who is coming. But no you need them for your low jobs and even not so lower jobs... Middle eastern ppl are well educated and can fill in many jobs unlike apparently subsaharan ones who used to arrive in Malta and Italy(ok hats off to Germany cause you were the only ones who picked some from here but not in the numbers you are taking now)
I am all for helping those in need but then when everything back home is back to normality ... bye bye...
and as for economic migrants 100% no no no
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby #12 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:02 pm

ramsej84 wrote:even Paris was liKe that... and by saying this I am going back to what I previously said...cause the ones who committed those atrocities four months ago were born there. Now you can't do much about such ppl but you can try to filter who is coming. But no you need them for your low jobs and even not so lower jobs... Middle eastern ppl are well educated and can fill in many jobs unlike apparently subsaharan ones who used to arrive in Malta and Italy(ok hats off to Germany cause you were the only ones who picked some from here but not in the numbers you are taking now)
I am all for helping those in need but then when everything back home is back to normality ... bye bye...
and as for economic migrants 100% no no no


Ok, you're talking about like 5 different things here... :D

Let's start:

Economic migrants... Why not? They're not refugees, and they should go through a proper citiznship application... Buät I think people coming here actually willing to work (believe you me, even though prejudices and stereotypes about Germany speak a different language: we have enough of those...)

Secondly: They're asylum seekers... OF COURSE they will be sent home as soon as their home is safe again... It never was different and it probabaly never will be...

"The Subsaharans" - you keep mentioning those... We have them... Lots of them... We don't just have Syrians... My hometown is very small, and there are significantly more "blacks" on the streets than before (actually, I barely saw one every now and then, now I see up to 5-10 a day...)... They're here... We're not picking cherries herem, even though somebody may have told you differently (actually, from what I hear, we have more problems with those than with Syrians, Afghans and all other Muslims...)

We all know we have to "filter" who's coming... Especially to make sure where they come from... We are doing that... You still keep talking about a one-time-event - that has been criticized by many, including me (but I can also relate to it and understand it...) - generally, we'Re not letting in everyone, whoever or whatever gave you that idea, forget it... OF COURSE our politicians are worried about our security (and by "our" I mean Europe's!")... And are taking actions for it...

And lastly: you cannot lock out terror(ism)... There is no 100% safety... There have been problems way before refugees came here, and there will be long after... All evidence points to actual terrorists, the BIG problems, not arriving here with refugees... As you said: they were born there... WE (Germany) made a mistake there, because we let them back in when we shouldn't have... But you know what? Those assholes actually came back in a plane... ;) We don't have more or less terror because of refugees... What you're demanding is sacrificing maybe tens of thousands in order to make basically no difference but "maybe in a very very lucky case potentially eventually possibly maybe" save a few... Generalizations never help... It's the same in this case... Of course, we also get "criminals"... But it's not like we never knew criminals before... ;)
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby Borusse » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:19 pm

pyrasur wrote:Did you read her books?


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Im not much of a book reader when it goes to subjects like that. I prefer to listen. :P

PunkCapitalist wrote:I'm familiar with Rand, but dont like her very much. Letting agreeing or not on her ideas aside, I always thought the way she formulated her ideas is not conductive to the popularization of libertarianism, which should be an objective e of the movement.

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I guess I might agree with that.
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby FCB general » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:44 pm

Turkey blocks Facebook, Twitter following deadly Ankara blast – reports [source]


Kurdistan and 40 mil Kurdish people are really a real pain in the eyes of Turkey.
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:51 pm

FCB general wrote:
Turkey blocks Facebook, Twitter following deadly Ankara blast – reports [source]


Kurdistan and 40 mil Kurdish people are really a real pain in the eyes of Turkey.

who was after it? Kurds? Just saw headline news...
The same in the Ivory Coast...
For a change the terrorist shouted allahu akbar ... what a shame using the name of God to justify their madness.
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:52 pm

in the meantime the AfD made significant gains while Merkel's party is going down and down and more down
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... -elections
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby FCB general » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:14 am

ramsej84 wrote:
FCB general wrote:
Turkey blocks Facebook, Twitter following deadly Ankara blast – reports [source]


Kurdistan and 40 mil Kurdish people are really a real pain in the eyes of Turkey.

who was after it? Kurds? Just saw headline news...
The same in the Ivory Coast...
For a change the terrorist shouted allahu akbar ... what a shame using the name of God to justify their madness.

Whatever bad and tragic happens in Turkey, Kurdish people have a reservation on it. The dog(Erdogan) is attacking Syrian Kurdistan, now Turkish Kurdistan, the only left are Iraqi and Iranian Kurdistan.

He planned false flag on its own people, but that plan came in the public and everything went to hell for the dog. Somehow I think he stands behind the bomb attack after he failed to secure absolute majority on regular elections last year.

That guy is ready to do everything, just like H. Clinton used Chicago gang members to screw Trump's campaign speech.

It's all about the well-known "Finis sanctificat media".
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby #12 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:20 am

One way to see it... Another - and more correct ;) - way to see it, is that even in Saxony-Anhalt more than 65% are aboard her current course... ;)

And the loss of "Merkel's" party in Baden-Württemberg was to be expected - Kretschmann is a charismatic guy (and leading a campaign titled "I'm the one backing the chancellor's course"...)... CDU will most likely be a part of every new government that was elected today... ;)

Of course they gained - they're a new "party"...
Still, most of their voters were voting out of protest, many of those usually non-voters... It's a party for the losers in our current society... ;)
And - this is where we get to why you actually "like" them: more than 75% of THEIR OWN voters believe they have nothing to offer, especially no solutions... It's a classic protest vote and nothing else... ;)

About the "Turkey-stuff": is that still "politics"?
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:12 am

#12 wrote:One way to see it... Another - and more correct ;) - way to see it, is that even in Saxony-Anhalt more than 65% are aboard her current course... ;)

And the loss of "Merkel's" party in Baden-Württemberg was to be expected - Kretschmann is a charismatic guy (and leading a campaign titled "I'm the one backing the chancellor's course"...)... CDU will most likely be a part of every new government that was elected today... ;)

Of course they gained - they're a new "party"...
Still, most of their voters were voting out of protest, many of those usually non-voters... It's a party for the losers in our current society... ;)
And - this is where we get to why you actually "like" them: more than 75% of THEIR OWN voters believe they have nothing to offer, especially no solutions... It's a classic protest vote and nothing else... ;)

About the "Turkey-stuff": is that still "politics"?


I leave it in Merkel's hands for the solutions ... she is the one... no? Did she sign the transfer of the 6,6 billion euros to **** yet?
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby albanian7 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:06 am

#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:even Paris was liKe that... and by saying this I am going back to what I previously said...cause the ones who committed those atrocities four months ago were born there. Now you can't do much about such ppl but you can try to filter who is coming. But no you need them for your low jobs and even not so lower jobs... Middle eastern ppl are well educated and can fill in many jobs unlike apparently subsaharan ones who used to arrive in Malta and Italy(ok hats off to Germany cause you were the only ones who picked some from here but not in the numbers you are taking now)
I am all for helping those in need but then when everything back home is back to normality ... bye bye...
and as for economic migrants 100% no no no


Ok, you're talking about like 5 different things here... :D

Let's start:

Economic migrants... Why not? They're not refugees, and they should go through a proper citiznship application... Buät I think people coming here actually willing to work (believe you me, even though prejudices and stereotypes about Germany speak a different language: we have enough of those...)

Secondly: They're asylum seekers... OF COURSE they will be sent home as soon as their home is safe again... It never was different and it probabaly never will be...

"The Subsaharans" - you keep mentioning those... We have them... Lots of them... We don't just have Syrians... My hometown is very small, and there are significantly more "blacks" on the streets than before (actually, I barely saw one every now and then, now I see up to 5-10 a day...)... They're here... We're not picking cherries herem, even though somebody may have told you differently (actually, from what I hear, we have more problems with those than with Syrians, Afghans and all other Muslims...)

We all know we have to "filter" who's coming... Especially to make sure where they come from... We are doing that... You still keep talking about a one-time-event - that has been criticized by many, including me (but I can also relate to it and understand it...) - generally, we'Re not letting in everyone, whoever or whatever gave you that idea, forget it... OF COURSE our politicians are worried about our security (and by "our" I mean Europe's!")... And are taking actions for it...

And lastly: you cannot lock out terror(ism)... There is no 100% safety... There have been problems way before refugees came here, and there will be long after... All evidence points to actual terrorists, the BIG problems, not arriving here with refugees... As you said: they were born there... WE (Germany) made a mistake there, because we let them back in when we shouldn't have... But you know what? Those assholes actually came back in a plane... ;) We don't have more or less terror because of refugees... What you're demanding is sacrificing maybe tens of thousands in order to make basically no difference but "maybe in a very very lucky case potentially eventually possibly maybe" save a few... Generalizations never help... It's the same in this case... Of course, we also get "criminals"... But it's not like we never knew criminals before... ;)


Economic immigrants:

If they don't benefit your country, why do you want them in the country?

Asylum-seekers:

Many of them are from Albania or Kosovo, they're sending money from Germany :P thanks for raising consumption in my city

Filtering:

Whom are you filtering? Are you sure you are? Keeping criminals? I can't say I know the situation well, but I honestly don't think we're talking about millions of young professionals with PhD degrees staying in Germany and working in hospitals.

We, people from another country, have this idea that your government decided to let everyone in simply because that's what saw on TV last September/October. Do you mean to tell me that thousands of people didn't get into trains in Hungary and came to Munich back then? Do you mean to tell me that last year Germany vetted one million people before letting them into the country? I didn't pull off that one million number out of my ass, your government said that.

Terrorism:

Ofcourse, if someone wants to do sth Paris-style, they have no reason to get in with the refugees - they can choose one of the one million alternative routes. That is not the issue. The issue is that in one million people you let in, the majority will stay. And some of them will become disillusioned, because they won't get a free apartment and a free car. Some of them will turn to religion, because people in desperate situations do turn to religion. And maybe, in a future, your ghettos will look like the French ghettos - correct me if I am wrong, but those ghettos produced 2 terrorist attacks in the space of eleven months. Why do you think Germany will be able to integrate these one million people better than France integrated theirs? Better than the Turks?

"But it's not like we never knew criminals before"

That doesn't mean inviting more in. Even if they are a perfect representation of immigrants, they have, in general, a higher crime rate than the national rate right? Even if that wasn't the case, single young men have a higher chance of engaging in criminal activities.

A young man who gets a little allowance and wants to support his family in Egypt won't steal? Won't rob houses? Interesting

A young man, coming from a culture where women are oppressed, will suddenly learn to value women as equal? Tell me about it.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

If you want them, you can keep them. I feel sorry for whatever the consequences will be, but it's the same feeling I get when Republicans vote for Trump. If you want it, keep it. I can't vote in the US and I can't vote in Germany. I feel sorry, but it doesn't affect me. Our asylum seekers are sending money and supporting our grocery shops and local economy and soon "refugees" will begin to pour in and use our smuggling routes to get to Italy, so more money for our local economy. While my politicians are corrupted pieces of shit, they really haven't gone all-suicide-mode recently so I am happy. If other countries decide to go mental, it is not my problem. No matter what happens, nothing will change here anyway.
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:00 am

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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Re: Politics Thread

Postby #12 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:47 pm

ramsej84 wrote:I leave it in Merkel's hands for the solutions ... she is the one... no? Did she sign the transfer of the 6,6 billion euros to **** yet?


Just for the record: I think she is too hesitant and I never liked her much as a person... But her "solution" is the only one that has a shot at working... So she's not the one... She's just the one in charge right now taking those actions... And you are fed a few tidbits to make you not like her... And by "you", I mean the people talking about propaganda here (which it isn't, but it's more like a spin) - so that your governments can continue to leave her holding the baby while gladly accepting any financial and economic help and everything else EU gives them... ;) That Turkey-deal is somehow bigot, I agree with you on that subject... (depending on what Turkey will actually do and how they'll use that money...

albanian7 wrote:If they don't benefit your country, why do you want them in the country?


Didn't say I "wanted" them... But as long as they go through the normal process of citizenship, I'm fine... Why? Because nothing better than someone coming here who actually wants to work, striving for a better life - because those guys are sure as hell motivated and willing to make an effort... ;)
Also, they DO... Anyone who works here is paying taxes, you know?!

albanian7 wrote:Many of them are from Albania or Kosovo, they're sending money from Germany :P thanks for raising consumption in my city


Well, they used to be... But since your country is not one where people are prosecuted, we're not really taking them anymore... Of course the bureaucratic process still takes a little time to be fully carried out, but it'll happen... (one of the problems I already "admitted" we have)

albanian7 wrote:Whom are you filtering? Are you sure you are? Keeping criminals? I can't say I know the situation well, but I honestly don't think we're talking about millions of young professionals with PhD degrees staying in Germany and working in hospitals.


I am... If you don't know it, why do you act as if you did? This is a sensible topic and if people always act very very hurt if someone uses that word that starts with an "N" and ends with a "i", then they should know what they're talking about first... ;)
Again... We're not cherry picking... We're filtering by origin, not education... We have education here, you know...? ;)
We're not talking about millions anyways, but about around one million... (PhDs work at universities, btw, MDs work in hospitals...)
And we're not keeping criminals (we used to, another one of those problems), but we're not sending away everybody for bagatelle crimes (like stealing a pack of gum or whatever...) - guidelines are practically tightened by the minute... This is a situation where politicians were all too bad prepared (another problem) - and now they have to make up for it - it takes a little time... And while other governments think it's "easier" to try and lock everybody out (which it is not), ours at least tries to make it work - but yeah, we still have a long way to go... Again - no one said this was easy...

albanian7 wrote:We, people from another country, have this idea that your government decided to let everyone in simply because that's what saw on TV last September/October. Do you mean to tell me that thousands of people didn't get into trains in Hungary and came to Munich back then? Do you mean to tell me that last year Germany vetted one million people before letting them into the country? I didn't pull off that one million number out of my ass, your government said that.


Well, maybe you should watch less TV then?! ;)
It was thousands, yes, but that million you seriously must have pulled out of said place, because that never happened... ;) We had a million refugees, yes, but most of them WERE "vetted" (you act as if they were carrying all kinds of diseases btw...) - and that was even more intensified after that incident... (btw, the hero Orbàn let them starve in that very train station back then)
And seriously, if you think a country like this is not able to control several thousands after they arrive here, you have no idea what we're capable of... ;)
The REAL problem is, that we have about 800.000 applications pending because of bad management again, meaning too few case workers - and I bet at least one third of them will be sent back right away...

albanian7 wrote:The issue is that in one million people you let in, the majority will stay.


Who told you that? Sorry, that's just :lol:
The biggest political issue here is still the cost of this whole operation... And many people who claim it's too expensive always put forth the following argument: "We're talking about a bunch of people here, that will leave right away after peace and order is restored in their country - and thus we have no benefit from this!"...
Believe me, most of them will not stay... Because they won't even be allowed to...

albanian7 wrote:your ghettos


we don't have those and we don't intend to...

albanian7 wrote:Why do you think Germany will be able to integrate these one million people better than France integrated theirs? Better than the Turks?


Again: most of them aren't even staying... Second of all, we have prime examples to learn... And last but not least: what about the Turks? They actually - for the most part - fit in here quite well...

albanian7 wrote:That doesn't mean inviting more in. Even if they are a perfect representation of immigrants, they have, in general, a higher crime rate than the national rate right? Even if that wasn't the case, single young men have a higher chance of engaging in criminal activities.


What gives you that idea? Sorry, that is pure BS... All evidence and statistics points out that crime rate is not higher (nor is it lower...) among people with a migrant background... The rest is quite paranoid if you ask me... Men have a higher chance of being rapists then women, let's lock em all away, shall we? Smokers run a higher risk of getting cancer, also, they increase chances of me getting cancer significantly - let's not expose them to the public, ok?
I think most of what you guys write is paranoia, sorry... You basically don't even recognize pro arguments, you have few that are actually true, and even if someone points it out, it doesn't even bother you... I think that's pretty stubborn... I'm not asking for a change to left-wing positions or whatever, but a little acknowledgement of the fact that Germans (still one of the most wealthy, peaceful, knowledgeable and respected countries in the world...!) maybe aren't actually just a bunch of dumbasses that don't know what they're doing would be a nice change of perspective for you that wouldn't make you lose face IMHO...

I do agree about the difficulties of teaching some of them to value women though... That's gonna be a big task... But the Turks you mentioned... They were from another Turkey than today's (not that today's is particularly liberal...) - and that worked out... I don't exactly know how it will turn out either... But I see no need to awfulize as well...

And ramsej: You keep badmouthing the liberals, when in fact I think you're more fed up with market economy, and even more so with the economy's influence on (nowadays) politics... Am I right?
Thanks for nothing, :pep: !!
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