You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

A place where you can chill out with the BayernForum.com community and talk about anything.
 

The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:09 pm

How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame | Jamie Jackson |

With cheap ticket prices and sound financial management, the Bundesliga is the antithesis of the Premier League

Borussia Dortmund's Westfalenstadion is home to the world's largest stand, where the average ticket price is just €15.
Photograph: Michael Sohn/AP


In Germany the fan is king. The Bundesliga has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five major leagues. At Borussia Dortmund their giant stand holds 26,000 and costs little more than £10 for admission. Clubs limit the number of season tickets to ensure everyone has a chance to see the games, and the away team has the right to 10% of the available capacity. Match tickets double as free rail passes with supporters travelling in a relaxed atmosphere in which they can sing, drink beer to wash down their sausages, and are generally treated as desirables: a philosophy English fans can only dream of.

The Bundesliga may be Europe's only fit and proper football league – the sole major domestic competition whose clubs collectively make a profit – yet no German team has won the Champions League for nine years. This success rate, though, could be about to change following Bayern Munich's advance to the semi-finals, following their thrilling disposal of Manchester United last week at Old Trafford.

"The Bundesliga as a brand, a competition, is in good shape. We have a very, very interesting competition, a stable and sustainable business model that relies on three revenue sources," the Bundesliga chief executive, Christian Seifert, tells Observer Sport. A holy trinity comprising match-day revenue (€424m), sponsorship receipts (€573m) and broadcast income (€594m) is the main contributor to the Bundesliga's €1.7bn turnover.

A glance at the continent's other major leagues confirms the state the sport is in. On these shores Portsmouth dice with extinction, while Manchester United and Liverpool build mammoth debt mountains. In Spain, where debts are just as high, La Liga players may strike because of unpaid wages in the lower divisions. The stadiums of Italy are half-filled, and in France their clubs spend more of their income (71%) on players' wages than those of any country.

Seifert says the success of the Bundesliga is because of the "core value" of the supporter coming first at its clubs. This is why tickets are kept so cheap. "Because the clubs don't ask for more money," he explains. "It is not in the clubs' culture so much [to raise prices]. They are very fan orientated. The Bundesliga has €350m less per season than the Premier League in matchday revenues. But you could not from one day to another triple prices.

"Borussia Dortmund has the biggest stand in the world. The Yellow Wall holds 26,000, and the average ticket price is €15 (£13) because they know how valuable such a fan culture and supporter base is.

"We have a very interesting situation. First, tickets are cheap. Second, many clubs limit the percentage of season tickets. For instance, Borussia Dortmund, Schalke 04, Hamburg, Bayern Munich. They want to give more fans the chance to watch games live. If you have 80%, 100% then it is all the same people in the stadium. Also in Germany the guest club has the right to 10% of the tickets for its fans."

Last season La Liga attracted an average of 28,478 fans, Ligue 1 21,034, Serie A 25,304 and the Premier League 35,592. These figures are dwarfed by the Bundesliga's average of 41,904. Its soaring attendances are matched by a balanced approach to salaries. "The crucial thing in last year's €1.7bn turnover and €30m profit was that Bundesliga clubs paid less than 50% of revenue in players wages," Seifert says. This is the continent's lowest. In 2007‑08 [the most recent available year] the Premier League paid out 62%.

All this prudent financial management is achieved despite the Bundesliga's television income being a modest €594m compared with the Premier League's lucrative return of €1.94bn. Seifert explains the disparity. "The TV market in Germany is very special. When pay-TV was introduced in 1991 the average household already received 34 channels for free. Therefore we had the most competitive free TV market in the world, so this influenced the growth of pay-TV very much. We were forced to show all of the 612 games of the Bundesliga and second Bundesliga live on pay-TV. So we have to carry the production costs of this."

No Bundesliga team has won the Champions League since Bayern Munich beat Valencia in 2001 and its last finalist was Bayer Leverkusen, eight years ago. But Seifert disputes whether the small return from television rights has been a defining factor in this record. "Money-wise, Bayern Munich is ranked in the first four clubs of Europe. And bear in mind even Chelsea, which spent a hell of a lot of money in the last years, didn't win it. Sometimes you could have the feeling that the ability to win the Champions League goes in line with your willingness to burn a hell of a lot of money. For that reason I think Uefa is on very good track with their financial fair play idea."

Deloitte's accountancy figures for the 2007-08 season show all but one Premier League club (Aston Villa) to be in debt. Compare this with the Bundesliga report for last season, which offers a markedly disappointed tone when recording that "only 11 of the 18 clubs are now in the black".

Pressed further on the lack of success in Europe's premier club competition Seifert argues for sport's cyclical nature. "At the end of the 1990s the Bundesliga was the strongest in Europe. In 1997 we had won the Champions League [Borussia Dortmund] and the Uefa Cup [Schalke]," he says.

"Then in 1999, 2001 and 2002 we were in the final at least. In those days the Premier League had more money, too. It depends not only on money but the quality you have – if it only depended on money then Porto wouldn't have played Monaco in the 2004 final."

Seifert also points to German football's success in producing its own players. This is borne out by Germany being European champions at under-17, under-19, and under-21 level. "The Bundesliga and German FA made a right decision 10 years ago when they decided that to obtain a licence to play you must run an education camp [academy]. The Bundesliga and second Bundesliga spend €75m a year on these camps.

"Five thousand players aged 12-18 are educated there, which has now made the number of under-23-year-olds in the Bundesliga 15%. Ten years ago it was 6%. This allows more money to be spent on the players that are bought, and there is a bigger chance to buy better, rather than average, players," Seifert says of a league in which the stellar performers currently include Bayern's Frank Ribéry and Arjen Robben.

"When Bayern played against Manchester United Philipp Lahm, Bastian Schweinsteiger, Holger Badstuber and Thomas Müller were all homegrown," Seifert says. "So yes, it's a cyclical environment and you have to deal with that. Therefore I'd deny that you could really say whether a league is strong or weak just because one club wins or does not win the Champions League."

Seifert's view is supported by Arsenal having followed United out of the competition last week, when Arsène Wenger's team were dismantled by Barcelona, to leave no Premier League presence in the semi-finals for the first time since 2003. And for the 2012-13 season Germany should have four places in the Champions League as by then they should have overtaken Serie A in Uefa's five-year coefficients.

Seifert also has Spain in his sights. "If we consider our financial capabilities and the stability of our business model, then the aim of the Bundesliga in the long run has got to be second place behind the Premier League," he says.

Of all the Bundesliga's regulations, the recent history of English football suggests it might have benefited most from the 50+1 rule. This states that members of a club must retain at least 51% ownership, so preventing any single entity taking control. Portsmouth are the most glaring example of how an outsider might potentially ruin a club – their administrator is currently searching for their fifth owner of this season – and the Bundesliga recently reiterated the commitment to the rule following a challenge from Hannover 96.

Martin Kind, Hannover's president, wished to change the regulation. He told Observer Sport: "The rule means the loss of many Bundesliga clubs' ability to compete nationally and internationally. And in some ways it prevents further development of German football, especially those clubs who play in the lower half of the Bundesliga as they do not have enough financial resources. The ownership rule should be abandoned or modified."

While Kind adds that his lawyers believe he has a "good chance" of winning the case when it is heard at the court of arbitration for sport this year, Seifert is proud that when the 36 clubs that comprise the Bundesliga's two divisions voted on the issue "35 were against".

There are exceptions to the 50+1 rule. Yet even these appear couched in common sense. Seifert again: "Bayer Leverkusen and Wolfsburg [whom Fulham knocked out of the Europa Cup on Thursday] are two. If a company is supporting football in a club for more than 20 years then it can acquire the majority. The idea is that a company has by then proved to fans and the league that they take their engagement in the Bundesliga seriously, that it's not just a fancy toy or part-time cash injection that [could] change from one day to another."

What the Bundesliga does allow to be transformed from one season to the next is the prospect of any and all its clubs mounting a realistic tilt at the title as Wolfsburg's triumph, the first in their 64-year history, proved last season.

"In the last three years of the Bundesliga we have three different cup winners and three different champions," Seifert says. "Sepp Herberger, the coach of the West German team that won the 1954 World Cup, said: 'You know why people go to the stadium? Because they don't know how it ends.'"
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby Element » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:42 pm

Double post :wink:
User avatar
Element
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17731
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere on Google Earth
National Flag:
Jordan
Has thanked: 505 times
Been thanked: 930 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby SilentStrike » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:14 pm

Interesting.

So once Platini makes sure only financially healthy clubs can praticipate in CL (scheduled for 2016), bundlesliga will come out as the strongest league in europe
Aux Champs-Élysées
Aux Champs-Élysées
Au soleil, sous la pluie
À midi ou à minuit
Il y a tout ce que vous voulez
Aux Champs-Élysées
User avatar
SilentStrike
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3725
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:34 am
Location: Netherlands
National Flag:
Netherlands
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:53 pm

Element wrote:Double post :wink:


?
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:56 pm

SilentStrike wrote:Interesting.

So once Platini makes sure only financially healthy clubs can praticipate in CL (scheduled for 2016), bundlesliga will come out as the strongest league in europe



Yes I hope they follow this German model...but it is unlikely to happen...Spain [RM and Barca] have way better tax rates and tv right deals because everyone in spain is behind those two...It is not fair for other Spanish clubs.
But if they were to change that...Barca and RM would die in depth and would end their era in european football.

Italian clubs will drop in next few years because of introducing collective TV rights just like in BL and Premier league...their big clubs will not be so strong anymore which means less money for them and less world class players in Italy...maybe they come to BL:)
SPain will be next
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby Element » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:35 am

sch0ll7 wrote:
Element wrote:Double post :wink:


?


You opened 2 threads about this

But Mackoy Removed the 2nd one
sch0ll7 wrote:In the last three years of the Bundesliga we have three different cup winners and three different champions," Seifert says. "Sepp Herberger, the coach of the West German team that won the 1954 World Cup, said: 'You know why people go to the stadium? Because they don't know how it ends.'"

i totally agree With this

I Keep telling My Friends

EPL : The Top 3 are Close , but the difference between 3rd and 4th is over 10 points !!!

Serie A : Boring , They dont paly football , and WE all know that Inter or maybe Roma is going to win it

LA Liga : Barcelona and Real Madrid are Close , Nearly 20 points difference between 2nd and 3rd

Bundesliga : 3 years ,3 100% Different Tables , Small Clubs kill the big ones , and last season the top 4 Had A Mathematic Chance to win the league in the last week of the Season !!!!!

Before that , even the top 7 had the Chance

Wolfsburg was 9th till the winter break if i am not mistaken but they somehow won the league !!!!

I Love The Bundesliga
User avatar
Element
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17731
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere on Google Earth
National Flag:
Jordan
Has thanked: 505 times
Been thanked: 930 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:22 pm

Yes bundesliga is getting better and better...

And every team seems to have healthy finances.

This interests me and I would love to have other users posting some financial statistics from BL or other top leagues so we can debate about this ongoing topic in the press.. BL overtaking that 4th CL spot from Italians etc...

If anyone has any information please post it here so we can debate about BL and its future in world football.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby SilentStrike » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:44 pm

Even the guys at Redcafe (manutd forum) respect us because of this article:
http://www.redcafe.net/f7/bundesliga-on ... it-292123/
Aux Champs-Élysées
Aux Champs-Élysées
Au soleil, sous la pluie
À midi ou à minuit
Il y a tout ce que vous voulez
Aux Champs-Élysées
User avatar
SilentStrike
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3725
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:34 am
Location: Netherlands
National Flag:
Netherlands
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby dambun » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:56 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:How the Bundesliga puts the Premier League to shame | Jamie Jackson |


Great post, buddy.... Thanks :)
"" "" "" ""
Time for overhaul!
User avatar
dambun
2010/11 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:05 am
Location: Tehran, Iran
National Flag:
Iran
Has thanked: 862 times
Been thanked: 377 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:11 am

SilentStrike wrote:Even the guys at Redcafe (manutd forum) respect us because of this article:
http://www.redcafe.net/f7/bundesliga-on ... it-292123/


yes I got that from redcafe forum:)...and decided to post it here...

It would be nice if we can keep this topic alive with some new information
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:12 am

found some new information:D....



German model highlights Man Utd dilemma

By James Skinner

Manchester United's Champions League quarter-final at Bayern Munich on Tuesday is not only an on-field contest between two of Europe's great clubs - it also represents a clash of two very different financial philosophies.

While at United the talk is of takeovers, Bayern supporters are safe in the knowledge that such a scenario is unlikely to ever unfold at the Allianz Arena.

The system by which Bundesliga clubs are regulated, with an emphasis on strict financial rules and licensing, means Bayern are debt-free, allowing the club to offer some tickets for as little as 12 euros (£11) in a world-class stadium.

That is a world apart from the Premier League model of light-touch regulation that has allowed the United States-based Glazers to saddle United with debts of £716.5m.

It has become a debt too far for thousands of their fans, so much so that the Red Knights, a group of wealthy United followers in alliance with the Manchester United Supporters' Trust is attempting to wrest control of the club.

Stuart Dykes is a Manchester United fan living in Germany. He also supports Schalke and pays 13 euros (£12) to stand in the Veltins-Arena and watch his team.

The cost of the ticket includes free public transport to the stadium from certain areas. Membership of the Gelsenkirchen club costs him 96 euros (£86).
Allianz Arena
Bayern's space-age Allianz Arena

"In England, the Glazers are allowed to come in, while Portsmouth can have four owners in a season. That cannot happen in Germany," Dykes told BBC Sport.

"The German model means Bayern are attracting lots of investment but without the risk. It's completely different from United - it's a whole different philosophy.

"Bayern looked at what was happening in the United Kingdom and said: 'We don't want that to happen here'. They wanted to maintain control of the club."

Arguably, this financial prudence has come at a price, having limited the ability of German clubs to compete with their big-spending English counterparts, who can offer higher wages to players, in the Champions League.

Bayern were the last German side to be crowned champions of Europe in 2001, having lost to United in dramatic fashion two years earlier.

English clubs have triumphed twice since 2001 and appeared in the final on six occasions in the last decade, a period in which only one other German club has reached the final, Bayer Leverkusen losing to Real Madrid in 2002.

"When clubs can spend what they want, like in the Premier League, it's very difficult for German clubs to succeed," said Antonia Hagemann, project manager with the UK-based Supporters Direct organisation, which has carried out a Uefa-funded study of club ownerships and fan involvement across Europe.

"But there's a fair chance that they will have the last laugh. The German model doesn't restrict success, but the Premier League has set up a 'rat race' for everyone in Europe. It sees football as a brand - it is not interested in regulation."

At the heart of the German model are the fans, rather than owners or shareholders.

Bundesliga clubs broke the 2bn euro (£1.8bn) level for the first time in 2008-9
It was the seventh successive season in which an attendance record was set - averaging 42,000 a game
Average ticket price: 20.79 euros (£18.70) - about twice as much as in the Premier League
The Bundesliga is the European champion of sponsorship deals - 573m euros (£515m)

Until the late 1990s, all Bundesliga clubs were 100% owned by members - fans who pay to be part of the club.

However, the clubs recognised the need to compete with their European rivals and that this might not have been the best way to do it.

So some, including Bayern, spun off their professional football "sections" into outside limited companies, separate from the parent club, to attract investment.

Under Bundesliga rules, members must own 50% of the shares plus one extra vote of these spin-offs. This is the so-called 50+1 model, which makes it impossible for private investors to take over a club.

It is this model that many view as the best in Europe - and a far cry from the Premier League, where most clubs are struggling with debt. Earlier this season, Portsmouth became the first top-flight club to go into administration.

A Uefa report in February revealed that the total debt of Premier League teams - £3.4bn - is greater than that of the rest of Europe's top-flight clubs put together.

And although the Premier League clubs make up more than half of club assets in Europe, Manchester United's debt is almost more than £150m higher than that of the 36 clubs in Germany's top two divisions.

That is because Bundesliga clubs must submit information about their budgets and expected expenditure, and prove they are financially stable in order to play in the league.

There are also check-ups during the season, and licences can be withdrawn.

Second Division club Arminia Bielefeld were deducted four points by the Bundesliga for breaching the terms of their licence after suffering a financial shortfall and were fined 50,000 euros (£45,000) for the violation, which they admitted in February.

"I think the strict system is just one of the reasons preventing them [German clubs] from competing in the Champions League," said Michael Ashelm, of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper.
Robben and Ribery
You can watch Robben and Ribery for just £11

"In the past, the German clubs had many problems with things like defunct training systems and antiquated managers. This changed a lot with a new generation of managers and coaches.

"On the other hand, the financial system prevented the clubs from a disaster and allows for stable conditions - in contrast to England or Italy."

And of the comparison between top-flight clubs' debt in England and Germany, he said: "You need a strong value as a club to carry such debt as Manchester United and Liverpool - and the value of Bundesliga clubs is under it.

"This season Schalke had many problems with their liquidity. They have debts of about 140m euros (£125m)."

Schalke's debt accumulated from the construction of their new stadium, which was eased by a 100m (£90m) euro sponsorship deal with Gazprom. "For a big German club, this is life-threatening," Anselm added.

The German model does have its critics. Hannover 96 president Martin Kind has been a long-standing and vocal opponent of the 50+1 rule, and challenged it in the courts last year.

However, 32 of the 36 Bundesliga clubs rejected his proposal.

"Everyone in Germany used to look at the Premier League as the ideal model, but now the big clubs in England are in serious trouble," said Hagemann.

"I tell everyone not to follow the Premier League model. Fans in England don't really have a say.

"The English model is the worst model - its clubs have a perception a spending more money than they have."

Tony Woodcock, the former England striker who had a spell in Germany with Cologne during the 1980s, says the financial restrictions placed on Bundesliga clubs are not necessarily a disadvantage.

He believes Bayern are the "leading example" of how well run the German clubs are.

"Bayern are a bit down the pecking order in terms of attracting players compared to other European teams, but they do have some top players," he said.

"They have still attracted Franck Ribery, Mario Gomez and Arjen Robben - they have upped it a gear. To get them, you have to offer good rates. Bayern realise this."




Woodcock also believes that English clubs could learn a lesson or two from their German counterparts in how to treat their fans.

"For my first training session in Cologne, 10,000 people turned up," he said. "In Germany, they welcome the fans to the training ground but in England it's like Fort Knox."

A combination of reasonably priced tickets to watch the likes of Ribery and Robben strut their stuff in superb facilities ensures that Bayern fans are far happier than United supporters in the way their club is run, according to Dykes.

It remains to be seen whether over the next few months the Red Knights and Must can bring a similar degree of German prudence to Old Trafford.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:47 pm

Serie A set to be overtaken by Bundesliga


"The whole of Italy will be supporting Chelsea", Carlo Ancelotti said before the first Champions League game against Jose Mourinho's Inter Milan two weeks ago.



That might indeed have been the case - the Portuguese coach is not exactly the most-loved manager in Serie A. But Ancelotti's confident statement also begged another interesting question: what about the whole of England?



Chelsea is probably no longer the widely despised moneybags team of yesterday in their home country but they are still far from being universally liked.



Perhaps we can conclude that both teams, while respected abroad, wouldn't be favourites in domestic popularity contests. One thing is for certain, however: next Tuesday night, the whole of Germany will be in the Blue corner, not with the Nerazzurri.



Michael Ballack's involvement with the Londoners can only partially explain that preference. The real reason is to be found in the statistics department of UEFA headquarters in Nyon, Switzerland.


Champions League spots hang in the balance



Unbeknownst to most football fans, a titanic struggle between two of Europe's top leagues is reaching its final and decisive stage in the coming weeks: the German Bundesliga and Italy's Serie A are going head to head in the fight for the fourth Champions League spot.



UEFA assigns the starting places in European competitions based on average results over a five-year period. Due to disappointing performances - Germany hasn't had a club in a Champions League final since 2002 - the Bundesliga has been languishing in fourth place behind Spain, England and Italy in the coefficient table since 2003.



Only the top three leagues get four starters in the Champions League. But Serie A's fall from grace and German football's resurgence has brought the two countries very closely together in the stats table. After this week's good results for the German teams and the elimination of both Milan and Fiorentina, Italy are only ahead by 1.4 points. Back in December, the gap was still double, 2.8 points.



Germany still have five teams in the running - Bayern, Stuttgart (both in the Champions League) and Bremen, Wolfsburg and Hamburg (all Europa League) - whereas Italy are left with only Inter and Juve, who take on Fulham at Craven Cottage next week.



Defeats for those two teams in England would naturally be much appreciated in Germany. There is a realistic chance that the Bundesliga can overtake their southern rivals by the time the season is over and have four teams (three guaranteed starters plus one at the final qualification stage) involved in Europe's top competition from 2011-12, whereas the Italians would have to make do with two plus one.



This change wouldn't just have symbolic meaning. More teams in the Champions League equals more TV revenue, which equals more stars in the league. The flight of top talent from Serie A would be exacerbated, with the Bundesliga becoming a more attractive (and financially lucrative) league for international stars.



This all sounds a tad hypothetical, one could argue. But in many ways, the paradigm shift of power has already happened.


More star players going to Germany, than Italy



Only Inter and to a lesser extent AC Milan can still compete with Bayern Munich's spending power. One level below, where Stuttgart, Hamburg and Bremen are, the Italian middle-class teams (Palermo, Napoli, Lazio, Sampdoria, Fiorentina) can no longer afford to sign the calibre of player - Alex Hleb, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Claudio Pizarro - who would have chosen Serie A as a matter of course ten years ago.



Since results follow the money in football, Germany's good showing - especially in the Europa League - is no coincidence. As things stand before the games next week, the Bundesliga has, on average, actually had the best results of all leagues this season so far.



Even if Italy does manage to hold on to their third spot in the UEFA table for 2011-12, they are destined to lose it in the following year because their excellent 2005-06 results will no longer be taken into equation.



Maybe those who love Italian football should hope that this inevitable set-back will happen rather sooner than later. Losing the fourth spot was, in hindsight, a healthy shock to the system. It forced the Bundesliga to take stock, identify the mistakes and work hard to set them right.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby SilentStrike » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:44 pm

I think the article has the years wrong.
They're talking about next season being 2011-2012 and we MIGHT overtake them then

However, we can actually already overtake them for 2010-2011 season and 2011-2012 will have 4 german teams for sure.
Aux Champs-Élysées
Aux Champs-Élysées
Au soleil, sous la pluie
À midi ou à minuit
Il y a tout ce que vous voulez
Aux Champs-Élysées
User avatar
SilentStrike
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3725
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:34 am
Location: Netherlands
National Flag:
Netherlands
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:07 pm

The years are right because if we overtake them this season they will still have 4 CL spots because it is calculated before the start of the new season [because of CL qualifications that start in the summer]
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 116 times
Been thanked: 541 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Bundesliga is the only league that makes a profit

Postby SilentStrike » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:29 pm

hmm.

Well now that Bayern won we overtook Serie A
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uef ... k2010.html

and If barca win it will stay that way.
Aux Champs-Élysées
Aux Champs-Élysées
Au soleil, sous la pluie
À midi ou à minuit
Il y a tout ce que vous voulez
Aux Champs-Élysées
User avatar
SilentStrike
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3725
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:34 am
Location: Netherlands
National Flag:
Netherlands
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Next

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests