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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:44 am

A hotel at Fort Manoel, an extensive shopping complex and a casino-hotel at the historic Lazaretto are among the proposals in Midi’s official development plans for Manoel Island. [source]


Lol. What a greedy, ignorant, and idiotic country. Can't wait to move elsewhere. Useless telling me we have a gem of an island - none of it will be left in 20 years.


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Re: Maltese members

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:49 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
A hotel at Fort Manoel, an extensive shopping complex and a casino-hotel at the historic Lazaretto are among the proposals in Midi’s official development plans for Manoel Island. [source]


Lol. What a greedy, ignorant, and idiotic country. Can't wait to move elsewhere. Useless telling me we have a gem of an island - none of it will be left in 20 years.


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:(
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Maltese members

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:49 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
A hotel at Fort Manoel, an extensive shopping complex and a casino-hotel at the historic Lazaretto are among the proposals in Midi’s official development plans for Manoel Island. [source]


Lol. What a greedy, ignorant, and idiotic country. Can't wait to move elsewhere. Useless telling me we have a gem of an island - none of it will be left in 20 years.


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:(

the garden thingy and opens space make me more sad ... and mad ... who do they think they are fooling.?
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:04 pm

The thing is they'll justify it by saying the place was abandoned etc... true, and it should be developed, but more in the way of parks in foreign cities. The area is already a concrete jungle.

On an unrelated matter, what do you know about education during Arab times in Malta? I'm asking because they were easily the most learned people at the time.
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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:24 pm

A five star hotel. a high end casino and a fully functional Death Star are among the proposals in the new Midi development plans for Manoel Island.

The plans were proposed by development association Midi, who have been granted concession over a large part of the island in 2000. The proposal is part of a master plan from Midi which also includes a large shopping complex, multiple flat blocks and training facility for the Imperial Stormtroopers who will man the controls of the Galactic Death Star planet destroyer.

The plans were described as “Unacceptable” by Gżira mayor Conrad Borg Manché, who claimed the proposal would cause “the creation of an unholy Armageddon device capable of destroying whole planets with its kyber crystal powered superlaser, and traffic would be a nightmare.”

The plans were met with fierce opposition from AD chairman Arnold Cassola who said “Alternativa Demokratikia will insist on a full redesign of these plans, our beloved Manoel Island will not be host to a DS-1 Orbital Battle Station whose power can crumble mighty Alderaan in a single blow. Also casinos stopped being cool in the 70s.”

Midi chairman Darth Sidious has yet to comment. [source]

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Maltese members

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:52 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:The thing is they'll justify it by saying the place was abandoned etc... true, and it should be developed, but more in the way of parks in foreign cities. The area is already a concrete jungle.

On an unrelated matter, what do you know about education during Arab times in Malta? I'm asking because they were easily the most learned people at the time.

A very interesting question. However afaik there is not much written hist or documents about that period apart from the tomb of Maymuna.
Malta was predominantly Muslim. Some converted as otherwise had to pay the Harag (a tax). The Arabs that came here were sicolo Arabs(who came from Sicily) hence our language A mix of Sicilian and a Tunisian dialect


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U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:50 pm

Yeah documents are a big issue in that period. Wikipedia says this but without a citation: "Although Maltese citizens had access to education during the Arab occupation of 870 to 1090, the arrival of a number of religious orders in the following four centuries brought religious-based education to the island for wealthy families." I wouldn't be surprised if it's true though.

One thing that has confused me for some years is one document we have which claims that Malta was uninhabited for a long time after the Arabs first conquered it until the Sicolo-Arabs came to repopulate it. Logically it doesn't make sense. Nor linguistically.
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Re: Maltese members

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:12 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Yeah documents are a big issue in that period. Wikipedia says this but without a citation: "Although Maltese citizens had access to education during the Arab occupation of 870 to 1090, the arrival of a number of religious orders in the following four centuries brought religious-based education to the island for wealthy families." I wouldn't be surprised if it's true though.

One thing that has confused me for some years is one document we have which claims that Malta was uninhabited for a long time after the Arabs first conquered it until the Sicolo-Arabs came to repopulate it. Logically it doesn't make sense. Nor linguistically.

I met that when I had Maltese A level.
Lingwa u Lingwistika.
I think it makes sense.
I believe that the Arabs took everyone to Sicily...
And came back after 120years (if I am not mistaken)
When they came back they came with a new dialect, Tunisian / Sicilian = Maltese

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U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:57 am

I have that book but never really read much from it. I'll take a look at what it says.

As far as linguistics is concerned (since I assume that's what its point is), I don't think we can ignore that easily the fact that the preceding conquerors also spoke Semitic languages. It would assimilate easily with the other dialect you mentioned which is taken as the origin of Maltese. We have a particular problem with religious language, the sacraments in particular. They are all Semitic. I know baptism and the verb are very similar to the Maltese version in Arabic, not sure how similar the rest are. If both rulers and ruled were Muslim, why on earth would these Semitic words find their way into our vocabulary? I'd expect them to be closer to Latin. It's hard to know for sure and probably there are many more who refute this than who agree with me, but I think there's a good chance these are words which survived from the pre-Arab, Semitic-speaking but Christian times.

Now I was always under the impression that people somehow died out or something. If it as you say, i.e. that the Arabs carried everyone away, then it's possible for pre-Arab traces in our language to co-exist with the island being uninhabited for many years. Actually, I would say it increases the likelihood. If those who reinhabited Malta were directly descended from those who left it, it is almost unthinkable that these people abandoneded their language entirely.
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Re: Maltese members

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:53 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I have that book but never really read much from it. I'll take a look at what it says.

As far as linguistics is concerned (since I assume that's what its point is), I don't think we can ignore that easily the fact that the preceding conquerors also spoke Semitic languages. It would assimilate easily with the other dialect you mentioned which is taken as the origin of Maltese. We have a particular problem with religious language, the sacraments in particular. They are all Semitic. I know baptism and the verb are very similar to the Maltese version in Arabic, not sure how similar the rest are. If both rulers and ruled were Muslim, why on earth would these Semitic words find their way into our vocabulary? I'd expect them to be closer to Latin. It's hard to know for sure and probably there are many more who refute this than who agree with me, but I think there's a good chance these are words which survived from the pre-Arab, Semitic-speaking but Christian times.

Now I was always under the impression that people somehow died out or something. If it as you say, i.e. that the Arabs carried everyone away, then it's possible for pre-Arab traces in our language to co-exist with the island being uninhabited for many years. Actually, I would say it increases the likelihood. If those who reinhabited Malta were directly descended from those who left it, it is almost unthinkable that these people abandoneded their language entirely.

Minghalija fil Kap Malti lsien mhallat.

Most Religious voc is either Latin or Hebrew (Aramaic) in fact some thought that Maltese derives from Aramaic (id damma ta'de Soldanis) and others Phoenician...
The Phoenicians who came from today's Lebanon were not Muslims cause the Religion was hundreds years away, they were pagans.
Could be that the Rel voc is more or else a mix of Aramaic, (a defunct language) latin and Greek the languages of the first Christians.
Don't forget that we were one of the first who got to know the word of Jesus Christ 60AD

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U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:01 am

But we know from that story of 60AD that the Maltese did not speak Latin or Greek... Despite Malta being under Roman control for centuries. The only logical assumption is that we kept some form of Semitic language we got from the Phoenicians. If this is the case it is unlikely that this just disappeared and was replaced by another Semitic language because that's just not how language works. The two are similar enough for them to be assimilated. I disagree with those who claim Maltese started in Arab times. It's definitely the greatest influence but there probably are some earlier traces.

But as I said, the point we started from (that linguistic continuity means it's not possible that the island was uninhabited) is flawed so we're discussing a different matter now


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Re: Maltese members

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:49 am

hmm...
I believe that original inhabitants were all taken away... and Malta was re populated by Arabs from Sicily...

But now to think of it how come they converted (back) to Christianity ? So you have a very valid point.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:45 am

Well there's the Norman invasion... But if they were repopulated by Arabs than the idea that we have been Christian since St Paul came to Malta is a myth because those people have no connection to us. It greatly changes our view of our own history


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Re: Maltese members

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:59 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Well there's the Norman invasion... But if they were repopulated by Arabs than the idea that we have been Christian since St Paul came to Malta is a myth because those people have no connection to us. It greatly changes our view of our own history


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In fact it does...
And there are heated debates about it.
We might not be the descendants of the first Christians.
Now while I am writing this I remembered that once I read that with the arrival of the Normans a couple of Religious orders came as well to convert the population.

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U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Maltese members

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:15 pm

Interesting... I'm not aware of those discussions.

Shame we don't know much about that time because it was probably a very interesting period


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