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Hooliganism - What are your thoughts on it?

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Postby diegis » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:22 pm

Sam wrote:You believe a hardcore group of fans should be able to affect team line ups, cash bonuses, and ticketing of a club? Because thats what they do. And if the club don't do as the ultras want, their are consequences. Go look up ultras in Italy on google. Ultras are the extreme end of hooliganism. Thats like saying the mafia is ok, as long as we all pay protection money, there is no violence. Therefore they are fine to have around, right?

i dont know were you saw ultras that are able to affect team line-ups,... maybe in italy but i dont consinder them ultras (not all), even they are starting to call themselves hooligans (see Irriducibili - Lazio).

according to wikipedia:
Ultras - club relationship

Groups usually have a representative who liaise with the club owners on a regular basis, mostly regarding ticket and seat allocation, and use of storage facilities. Some clubs provide the groups cheaper tickets, a warehouse to store material and access to the stadium before the match to prepare the tifos.

Some of these relations are criticised by other fans of the club, who see the Ultras as nothing more than troublemakers doing more harm than good. Or when a club has more than one group, some might not agree with favouritism given by the board to one group over anoth
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Postby Sam » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:43 pm

I see your point supr4king, but I think its a moot one. I am not arguing that all ultras are hooligans, I am simply saying that I believe the problem lies within Ultras as well as the hooligans. I am sure there are alot of respectable ultra-club relationships out there, but I am simply pointing to the potentional for corruption. Which we see with human kind often, the potential for corruption pretty much means it will be corrupt at some point, especially as the scale grows larger.

The solution? Watch dogs. Government intervention. The EU coming up with blanket laws that punish accordingly. Clubs refusing to associate with fans who are violent. And that includes 'ultras' if they want to go down that path, which more than you would think do.
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Postby tracylynn » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:52 pm

I don't think it's wrong putting ultras and hooligans together because, unfortunately, some ultras are hooligans. Not every ultra fan is perfect. Some are just as bad as the hooligans themselves.

I think part of the problem is alcohol. Should they sell alcohol in the stadium? I think we all know that alcohol can make a normal person act like an ***hole when they have had too much too drink. Granted, there's nothing they can do about it if the fans drink outside the stadium but inside they can. If a fan is reved up and then he/she drinks that can lead to trouble.

This is a big subject and there simply may not be a simple solution to.
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Postby Paddy » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:08 pm

tracylynn wrote:I don't think it's wrong putting ultras and hooligans together because, unfortunately, some ultras are hooligans. Not every ultra fan is perfect. Some are just as bad as the hooligans themselves.

I think part of the problem is alcohol. Should they sell alcohol in the stadium? I think we all know that alcohol can make a normal person act like an ***hole when they have had too much too drink. Granted, there's nothing they can do about it if the fans drink outside the stadium but inside they can. If a fan is reved up and then he/she drinks that can lead to trouble.

This is a big subject and there simply may not be a simple solution to.


Football match without beer? Hell no!!!
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Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:02 pm

Perhaps instead of completely removing beer, a solution would be to give 3 beer 'vouchers' with every ticket. To buy a beer, you have to present a voucher. That way, people are only allowed to drink 3 bottles of beer. Of course, there will be people who will obtain them from other people who are not interested in having beer, but at least it makes it a bit more difficult to get drunk.
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Postby Paddy » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:48 pm

MUTU wrote:Perhaps instead of completely removing beer, a solution would be to give 3 beer 'vouchers' with every ticket. To buy a beer, you have to present a voucher. That way, people are only allowed to drink 3 bottles of beer. Of course, there will be people who will obtain them from other people who are not interested in having beer, but at least it makes it a bit more difficult to get drunk.


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Postby tracylynn » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:48 pm

I don't know if giving vouchers would work because some folks still get crazy after drinking three bottles of beer. I'm not saying that they should remove beer from the stadiums but you gotta admit that alcohol makes folks act in ways they normally wouldn't. How about this....instead of selling beer in bottles, how about selling beer in cups such as plastic? Bottles can be so dangerous and having the beer in cups does take away some of that danger.
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Postby Mirage » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:46 pm

Selling beer in cups is a nice idea that could improve things. But face it, it doesn't matter if you stop alcohol distribution inside stadiums altogether, fans will get pissed outside. They find a bar, hang up their flags and get drunk before they go in to the stadium. Well, that is the case for bigger games, such as national and UEFA games.

And I agree with Tracylynn, ban them for life if they're a hooligan. I can't stand fighting in sport, just as I can't stand drugs.
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Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:11 pm

Generally they do give beer in plastic cups. Else you'd see a lot of bottles being thrown around!
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Postby Paddy » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:57 pm

MUTU wrote:Generally they do give beer in plastic cups. Else you'd see a lot of bottles being thrown around!
yup, they are plastic.

And leave alcohol alone :cry:
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Postby tracylynn » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:59 pm

They sell beer in plastic cups? Do all stadiums sell it in plastic cups? I know the Roma fans were throwing beer bottles inside the stadium.
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Postby Paddy » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:10 pm

tracylynn wrote:They sell beer in plastic cups? Do all stadiums sell it in plastic cups? I know the Roma fans were throwing beer bottles inside the stadium.
yup...as far as i know they are in cups...
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Postby Mirage » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:01 pm

Well alcohol has been banned this week in Milan.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?ar ... eid=306276

It can't be sold in shops throughout the city. That's very drastic action.
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Postby Paddy » Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:30 pm

**** that. I´d rather have beer than football
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Bayern fans attack Nuremberg supporters

Postby MUTU » Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 am

Police arrested 73 Bayern Munich fans after they attacked a group of Nuremberg supporters at a highway rest area.

Several buses loaded with Bayern fans were on their way to Moenchegladbach, for their side's Bundesliga game Saturday as they pulled into a rest area, where several Nuremberg fans were also resting.

As soon as the Bayern supporters saw the Nuremberg fans they rushed out of their buses and attacked them, lightly injuring three people. The wife of one of the bus drivers was seriously injured and had to be taken to hospital.

A spokesman for the prosecutor's office Sunday said the 45-year-old was facing a lengthy hospital stay with a head injury.

Although the Bayern fans immediately retreated to their buses after the attack, police arrested 73 of them. All but 10 were released Saturday night and returned to Munich. The others remain in police custody facing charges for assault and destroying property.
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