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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:08 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:Ok so let's say there is no law there...would you say it would be normal for a brother to love his sister that he grew up with and have children with her later on? would you be so open minded about that? You seing your 2 cousins [brother and sister] coming to your dinner party and kissing eachother? and later having sex in your bathroom?

I would not do it myself, I would not enjoy seeing it in front of me (as I would not enjoy two men), but they are free to do so if they feel that way about each other. It is not about the law, I think that it is not normal when they grew up together for the reason given in my previous post. If two siblings fall in love with each other, however, I do not think that it is ethically or morally wrong, even if it is not the norm and if it is illegal.

sch0ll7 wrote:And if you could choose to give your child [you cant provide for or take care of because you are handicapped and your wife is dead] to 2 gay people that cant reproduce...and 2 of your cousins [brother and sister] that are in love and living with eachoter and have few of their own kids. who would you choose?

In this case I would 99% pick the cousins simply because they are family. If I had to choose between a gay couple and a sibling couple, all of which are unrelated to me, I would not mind picking the gay couple over them if I feel that I can trust them more and they would take better care of my child. I would probably also seek advice on the matter and of course, giving up my child to another couple would be the very last resort.
sch0ll7 wrote:Would you give your child to a couple [brother and sister that have sex together and are living together as a family] ?

As long as it is not done in front of the child, as with any other kind of sexual relationship, yes. Although I still think that it is important that the child is made aware of the possible biological consequences that such a relationship can have, if he/she has any siblings.

sch0ll7 wrote:About growing up with some girls that are my neighbours...I had most of my sexual experiences or relationships with girls that live near me and I know them since kindergarten. And probably most people did till they were some 18 years old.

Perhaps it is different when you live in such a small country then. Most people I know tend to remain just friends with people they knew as children.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:54 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I would not do it myself, I would not enjoy seeing it in front of me (as I would not enjoy two men), but they are free to do so if they feel that way about each other. It is not about the law, I think that it is not normal when they grew up together for the reason given in my previous post. If two siblings fall in love with each other, however, I do not think that it is ethically or morally wrong, even if it is not the norm and if it is illegal.


If that is not ethically or morally wrong? than I really dont know what is? That just shows how morals have changed. I really cant understand someone believing that brother having sex with his own sister is not ethically or morally wrong. That just shows that some "open-minded" people have no morals left in them. And sadly that number is getting bigger in the west.

Your claims have faults because...what does 14 year old kid that hits puberty knows about how having sex with his siblings can influence genetics? Even if he has sex with his sister that does not mean they will have children. But he is just not attracted to his sister because he saw a pattern throughout his whole life that brothers are sisters dont have sex because it is wrong. It is not natural. Noone told him that and they didnt learn it at school yet.

FCBayernMunchen wrote:As long as it is not done in front of the child, as with any other kind of sexual relationship, yes. Although I still think that it is important that the child is made aware of the possible biological consequences that such a relationship can have, if he/she has any siblings.


If that child was brought up by siblings that have sex with eachother...that child would think that is something normal. You can tell him that it is not but he will still see nothing wrong with it because he would live with two foster parents that are doing it.
That is the difference. And later on he would also probably have sexual experience with one of those children [half brothers or cousins] because foster parents would say it is nothing wrong with having sex with your brother or sister or cousin etc.

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Perhaps it is different when you live in such a small country then. Most people I know tend to remain just friends with people they knew as children.


It has nothing to do with that. I also remained friends with every female neighbour I had but that does not mean that when I was 13 years old I didnt have my first kiss with one of them and was attracted to few of them when I hit my puberty around the same age. And even now if there is some hot neighbour that I grew up with...I say damn that is some great ass on her. It is not like she is my sister or I am gay. It is normal to be attracted to a girl that is hot.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:22 am

Why are we talking about brothers and sisters having sex? I can't see how it has anything to do with homosexuality that we were discussing.

Anyway, read this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/2 ... 03361.html
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:20 am

in my lovely country [source]


were...80% of the pop was against this law... yet (mainly) not vs the union in it self but vs the adoptions. However our democratic social liberal
govt. rolled over everyone and carried on with his objective; thus securing him thousands of votes for the future generations.
I am ashamed by my countrymen who remained silent before this mayhem and just opted for posting on blogs, while on the other hand a law like this in a secular country like France drew tens of thousands of ppl from all folks of live & religions to protest...
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:27 am

ramsej84 wrote:I am ashamed by my countrymen who remained silent before this mayhem and just opted for posting on blogs, while on the other hand a law like this in a secular country like France drew tens of thousands of ppl from all folks of live & religions to protest...

Did you do anything about it yourself? If not, you should be ashamed of yourself as well :P

I'm personally OK with gay adoptions, unless it's scientifically proven that it increases the chances of one becoming gay (beyond the fear-factor stats of kids in traditional families perhaps being 'scared' to come out). If it's scientifically proven, then I'd be against it. The problem is that studies on gay behaviours have mostly been inconclusive.

Anyway, I think it's generally better for a kid to be brought up by a gay family rather than the nuns at the Istitut. At least they have parents. Two of them, not just one which was already possible before.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:15 am

I also see nothing wrong with them, but would not have minded either had it been introduced at a later stage as a separate bill, as the other party in Malta wanted. The important thing is that it would have been introduced unless there is strong evidence to oppose it.

I think the government did well to stand by what it believes in. After all, it has been clear on its stance on this issue for a long time.

Anyway, this homosexuality debate is one which I think we will never agree on.

P.S. I wrote this post on my phone and it doesn't recognise the word 'homosexuality'. I have a homophobic phone. :lol:
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:09 am

P.S. I wrote this post on my phone and it doesn't recognise the word 'homosexuality'. I have a homophobic phone. :lol:[/quote]
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby runaway » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:07 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:ANd than on the other hand we have...you and your sisters split when you were both babies...you never got to know your sister because she lived some 1000km away from you...than you go to college and you meet a nice girl and you two fell in love and than someone says to you...she is your sister you cant do that. But somehow you both are still in love with eachother.


Actually attraction between siblings who wasn't raised together is genetically influenced. It's called the genetic sexual attraction.
siblings who are raised apart sometimes develop a sexual attraction to each other when they meet later in life, developing what is known as genetic sexual attraction. [source]


While siblings or children even though not blood related and raised together don't get attracted sexually with each other is called the
Westermarck effect [source]
. Only the cut-off of effect is six year old and children raised after age of six doesn't show the effect.

The Westermarck effect is a phenomenon which has been observed in individuals who spend large amounts of time with each other under the age of six. People who are raised together, regardless of relationship, tend to become desensitized to each other, and they will not generally develop sexual attraction to each other later in life. A variety of studies have supported the concept of the Westermarck effect.

In an interesting modern example of the Westermarck effect at work, researchers studied traditional Chinese families, who sometimes adopt a young girl into their households with the intention of marrying the girl to their sons. They discovered that the girls are often strongly opposed to such marriages when they come of age, and that these marriages are more prone to later dissolution, childlessness, or adultery. [source]


I remember this because it was one of the episode of a US detective shows. There's too many of them I can't remember which show it was. Something where they found out the kids were related because of the specks in their eyes which they saw in the father's eyes.

As for this gay couple adopting debate, I am pro. I live in a 3rd world country. I've seen enough parents having too many kids they can't raise. Their parents can't provide them with basic needs. Even though education (up to high school) is free, some doesn't choose to and become child laborers instead. Some go to school in an open stomach then go to work after school. Some parents even force their child to pornography. How f*cked up is that? So if a gay couple can give a child a better future than they can get from their parents, I have no qualms. In fact, I know some people like that. They turned out fine. One was gay as well but does that mean it was influenced by her parents? She tells me it was a part of it. Because for her she saw nothing wrong with being interested in the same gender and she doesn't feel the guilt that kids raised in a 'normal' family might feel. Gender identity is not just influenced by our parents especially in this generation, the world is so open.

Sexuality is part nature, part nurture. And Love is love. We don't really force ourselves to really love people or things, we just do.

There's nothing illegal or morally wrong in what gay people do. They're just attracted to a gender not deemed right by the 'holy' books while pedophilia is illegal and morally wrong. And can I just point out that some pedophiles have their own kids.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby sch0ll7 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:28 pm

runaway wrote:Actually attraction between siblings who wasn't raised together is genetically influenced. It's called the genetic sexual attraction.


Correct me if I am wrong.

brother and sister that grow up together dont have that gene [because they grow up together]? But having a gene means that you get it even before you are born. But siblings that dont grow up together have sexual attraction genes. How can a gene know which siblings will live together or which wont? That is just stupid.
There is maybe a gene that draws siblings together...but not sexually. The only proof that article has is that one weird guy fell in love with his sister later in his life.

And that also proves everything that I was saying in my previous posts. That brother and sister [that dont know each other] could potentialy fall in love later in life because they didnt grow up together which means they didnt develop that brother/sister/family love.

runaway wrote:The Westermarck effect is a phenomenon which has been observed in individuals who spend large amounts of time with each other under the age of six. People who are raised together, regardless of relationship, tend to become desensitized to each other, and they will not generally develop sexual attraction to each other later in life. A variety of studies have supported the concept of the Westermarck effect.

In an interesting modern example of the Westermarck effect at work, researchers studied traditional Chinese families, who sometimes adopt a young girl into their households with the intention of marrying the girl to their sons. They discovered that the girls are often strongly opposed to such marriages when they come of age, and that these marriages are more prone to later dissolution, childlessness, or adultery. [source]


That is confirming everything I said in my previous posts...

People that live together [under one roof etc...] generally wont develop sexual attraction to each other. probably 95% of those cases are siblings and other 5% are adopted children that live with the biological step brothers/sisters...from very young age. That happens because they learn/develop a feeling that if someone is your brother/sister you love them as family and dont have sex with them...and you cant feel attracted to them. That is WHAT NORMAL PEOPLE and normal families do. And that is what that chinese girls did.

runaway wrote:As for this gay couple adopting debate, I am pro. I live in a 3rd world country. I've seen enough parents having too many kids they can't raise. Their parents can't provide them with basic needs. Even though education (up to high school) is free, some doesn't choose to and become child laborers instead. Some go to school in an open stomach then go to work after school. Some parents even force their child to pornography. How f*cked up is that? So if a gay couple can give a child a better future than they can get from their parents, I have no qualms. In fact, I know some people like that. They turned out fine. One was gay as well but does that mean it was influenced by her parents? She tells me it was a part of it. Because for her she saw nothing wrong with being interested in the same gender and she doesn't feel the guilt that kids raised in a 'normal' family might feel. Gender identity is not just influenced by our parents especially in this generation, the world is so open.


You are pro for gays adopting children just because peope in your country are **** up and they dont know how to raise their own child. So hey...let's just give them to gays and just **** up our society even more.
You need to address your problem properly and first get ethics and morals into your society and than there wont be as much prostitues, pornography etc...It has nothing to do with gays.

It would be same if I said something like this..."My neighbours cant afford to pay for college for their child...why are they so stupid...why dont they just go out and find a rich gay couple and give it to them?"
When all of you say those things...it just gets more weirder for me.

The most frequent excuse for gays to adopt children is..."Why not? If they can raise a child better than his own biological parents than give that kid to them". Who thinks like that?

A lot of you are mixing important things in life and important things for kids.

The most important thing for your child is how you raise him. Not how much money you give him, how much toys you buy him etc..The most important things you can give to your children are morals, guidence, security etc...Mother/woman gives that by being a mother...giving him security, taking care of that child like no father can do. Father gives a child something no mother can do. There are million things that a child can learn only by having both male and female as his parents.
Two females/males cant influence a child the same way male/female pair can. That is something that is a fact. Everything else is just a step down.

And again for all those people who will say...a gay couple can be a step-up for a child if his biological parents are drug addicts etc...I agree with that. But you have millions and millions of straight couples that cant have a child of their own and are waiting to adopt a child and would give him everything and take good care of him.

So why give the same chances of gay couples and straight couples adopting a child? Dont straight couples give much more to that child than gay couple can?

Again someone will say..."but it is not their fault they are handicapped and they didnt choose to be gay...so that is why we cant make differences between them and us. They also deserve to have a child of their own."

It is also not my fault that I am not 2m tall and I cant become a professional basketball player. I didnt choose to be short, I was born like that. So why make differences between me and Kobe Bryant? Why cant I also become a professional basketball player? I also deserve to be a top player.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby sch0ll7 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:39 pm

runaway wrote:As for this gay couple adopting debate, I am pro. I live in a 3rd world country. I've seen enough parents having too many kids they can't raise. Their parents can't provide them with basic needs. Even though education (up to high school) is free, some doesn't choose to and become child laborers instead. Some go to school in an open stomach then go to work after school.


My father and my mother were born in a "3rd world country". they both had 2 sisters and 2 brothers...so were born in a family that had too many kids. My grand parents couldnt provide them with basic needs. None of them finished high school because they had to start working at an early age. My father had to start working at 15...he moved 500 km away to find a job in a steel factory. Only thing he had at the begining was a spoon and a fork + some clothes. All of those brothers and sisters got on with their lives. Were raised great. Have happy families. All live quite good and are financialy provided. My grand parents enjoy their late lives and are good taken care of...because they raised their children right and are now providing for them.

Imagine people saying than...Those 2 parents cant provide for their children...it would be better to give them to adoption...even to a gay couple...it does not really matter beause they would be provided and could live a normal life.

What is normal life? Going to school, college, having parties, getting a job, working your whole life at some desk, not having time for your children, who just party around because they have enough money for doing stupid things...etc...?

Or can a normal life be something like...a couple raising a child in a house in some forest, providing for themselfs, that child probably doesnt even go to school because he helps around the house...gets married and lives in a house next to his parents [in the woods]..probably having only some vegetables to eat...and maybe 1 or 2 cows, 2 sheeps and that is it.

Who says which way of raising your child is right?
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCB general » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:24 pm

Hahaha, Balkan MAJKA svih majki! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Jebo me pas pa mi smo ispred svih njih oko tih stvari odavnina.

@Scholl, I couldn't say anything more on this what you wrote my friend, but we(no matter how fcked up in economic sense, corruption, political thieves, etc) are far above the rest. We know our limits and we really insist on them, especially when it comes to family subject. There are strict borders which cannot be allowed to be changed or broken by any system, state, devil himself or something else.

For centuries we have been aware of these things, generations were raised and maybe couple of things in the last 30 years have changed significantly, but the family remained the same as always before.

Perhaps all nations simply couldn't live because of some cultural and religious differences and it's okay that we live separately as a neighbours, to be masters of our destiny. But all countries of former Yugoslavia are unique when family comes on the main subject and we all know from televison where yours or ours talk about these things.
Family is a saint institution for us, the most important thing, there is no 'democratic, modern, progressive' etc. shíts. We all know how is that functioning from olden times to nowdays and it's simple as that. Moral and etical rules are strongly defined and underlined long time ago. You can do whatever you want, but house rules for almost everyone are well-known to everyone and we know what is an example of typical, normal family. The rest is just choice, irresponsibility and denying the right thing.

That what you have been writing here all the time, it's like you're reading my mind. All people of Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegowina, Montenegro, Macedonia, Kosovo know that it cannot go on the other way. Family is strictly defined in just one way and there aren't any families than those you're describing here.

My grandfather and father, all father's family were born in one mountain, in half-wild life conditions which is unbelivable. The eletric current came in those villages in the late 70's while western countries watched televison, had public lighting, Hollywood movies, house devices, etc.
Today you still don't have such things and there won't be, but those villages are dead. Grand grand father had 10 children, they all made impossible, without school education they've become a great people, some of them moved and worked in Germany for 40 years and they still live there, most of them moved to Slavonia in the 70's and 80's, the same story as yours with your father. It was a typical life for poor people who even became rich that their children and grandchildern from poverty have got and felt expensive cars, own houses, TVs, clothes, something what even city and town people haven't in Yugoslavia and to nowdays by living and working on those places.

We know what are the true values, we know what's good and what's bad. Material shít is just here to serve us, but the small, tiny things which you can't touch are priceless and those which are valuable.

We don't need interference of the state in family things. It's not to state to decide how should someone raise his child or not. State can go to trash since it's not on her to decide what is best for us.

I don't know do you watch Croatian televison or read Croatian media, but if you do, then you did see what was happening whole summer until the referendum about marriage.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby runaway » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:20 am

sch0ll7 wrote:Correct me if I am wrong.

brother and sister that grow up together dont have that gene [because they grow up together]? But having a gene means that you get it even before you are born. But siblings that dont grow up together have sexual attraction genes. How can a gene know which siblings will live together or which wont? That is just stupid.
There is maybe a gene that draws siblings together...but not sexually. The only proof that article has is that one weird guy fell in love with his sister later in his life.

It's not exactly a gene. What I pointed at was there were scientific evidence that children who co-habitated when they were below six years old show the Westermarck effect and siblings(the Guardian article even cited parents-child) who grown apart and met later in life develop attraction to each other. What I'm pointing at is, it's not exactly imagination but happens to real people even if they are a normal person.The guardian article cites so many instances of people having intense sexual attraction only to later find out their related. It's not a myth and something that associations who handle adoptions tend to be silent about but it's happens and from the experiences of the people in the article, something they can't control.

sch0ll7 wrote:You are pro for gays adopting children just because peope in your country are **** up and they dont know how to raise their own child. So hey...let's just give them to gays and just **** up our society even more.
You need to address your problem properly and first get ethics and morals into your society and than there wont be as much prostitues, pornography etc...It has nothing to do with gays.

Dude, I live in the Philippines. The most Catholic country in Asia. Morality isn't a problem in our country but poverty. Too many people are forced to do things they don't want to because they have to put the basic needs first. Food. A lot of these bad people still believe in God or go to Church. Our country is so Catholic, we just recently passed the law that supports use of contraceptives and condoms because the Church has a strong hold and only believes in abstinence and family planning. Here, gays don't have rights like marriage but they are not totally discriminated either. People still hold conservative views and some gays are physically abused by their family and force them to be straight.

I don't oppose gay people marrying and gay people adopting children because we are all equal. And one thing I can do/have shouldn't be denied to another just because they prefer to love a person not approved by society. Gays are not hurting anyone by loving their same kind.
sch0ll7 wrote:Imagine people saying than...Those 2 parents cant provide for their children...it would be better to give them to adoption...even to a gay couple...it does not really matter beause they would be provided and could live a normal life.


You do know how adoption process works right? They don't just give people kids when they like them. It's not window shopping. Couples who wants to adopt goes through a long and arduous process. All I'm saying is, gay couples shouldn't be banned from participating in that process on the basis of their sexual preference. A pedophile/sexual offender should be banned from that process because they like abusing children but gay couples who just wants to have their own family and are upstanding citizens, shouldn't be denied that right.

sch0ll7 wrote:The most important thing for your child is how you raise him. Not how much money you give him, how much toys you buy him etc..The most important things you can give to your children are morals, guidance, security etc...Mother/woman gives that by being a mother...giving him security, taking care of that child like no father can do. Father gives a child something no mother can do. There are million things that a child can learn only by having both male and female as his parents.
Two females/males cant influence a child the same way male/female pair can. That is something that is a fact. Everything else is just a step down.

No one is saying that. lol All others have pointed out was in summary, what's better a loving/ caring gay couple or a abusive, cold straight couple for a kid? Enough children are raised by single parents or from broken families or loveless families these days, is letting gay couples raise children, be something more unfitting for a child?

No parenthood is the same anyway because no child is the same. A parent's gender shouldn't matter because all a child needs is love, understanding, guidance, support, etc. All a gender does is demonstrate to a kid what a man or woman is and acts. You might not have met gay people by the way you talk but they are normal. Not all of them are out there Mardi Gras, women-wearing (transexuals) types.

Homosexuality is just a sexuality, something that defines them in what they like in sexual relations but it's not the whole definition of who they are.

That's all I'm going to say to this. I've said my piece and things like these are hard to argue with, especially over the internet. All I hope is when someday you have a homosexual family member, you try to accept them and not use physical force but approach them with an open-mind.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby SouthernStar » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:46 am

*Walked into thread... Guys discussing homosexuality and attractions between siblings and neighbours* :oops: :oops: :oops:

(OK by all means, I grew up in San Francisco after all... but still... you know... this is kinda... awkward)

Anyway, just wanted to say whoever had been managing BayernForum Twitter account (I believe it's only MUTU with that style of speech), you deserved some major applause =D> =D> =D>

Did I say how much of a tool I think Clark Whitney is in the chat last week? Wait, did I? Never mind, just want to say that he's a bloody tool.

He writes good articles, but I just can't stand the fact that he champions himself as a neutral, when he clearly is not... In fact, most people would agree that he favors BVB over any other teams in Germany. I would not have a problem with him dissing us, if he just admits it... I mean seriously, it's obvious.

Neutral? Raphael Honigstein is pretty neutral, and so does Cristian Nyari. Clark Whitney... PFFTTTT... [-X
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:47 am

runaway wrote:No parenthood is the same anyway because no child is the same. A parent's gender shouldn't matter because all a child needs is love, understanding, guidance, support, etc. All a gender does is demonstrate to a kid what a man or woman is and acts. You might not have met gay people by the way you talk but they are normal. Not all of them are out there Mardi Gras, women-wearing (transexuals) types.

Homosexuality is just a sexuality, something that defines them in what they like in sexual relations but it's not the whole definition of who they are.


You are mixing things my friend.

It is not about being gay. I have nothing against gays. I have met few gays in my life and even a transexual...a man who became woman.
And I will tell you that all those gays and that transexual I met...I would never give a child to them. Their way of thinking is not normal...they are too childish and have different priorities in their lives. Most of them were acting like teenagers but were around 30.

Their way of thinking on how to raise a child...buy him nice dresses, fashion clothes, etc...it was more like Paris Hilton having a chiwawa.
It is not a problem if 1 parent is like that [in most cases mother]...but it is a problem when both parents are acting like the kid is somekind of trophy and that kid is there just to make a parent feeling special. You have kids to raise them and make them special...not to turn them into walking trophy.

This will also be my last post about it...because I dont want to take it too far:)
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:09 am

more news from Malta [source]
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Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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