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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby AdepT » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:49 am

^MUTU, you kinky 'Youtuber'! :P

It's weird though. I have always tried to find a reason why people are gay?
I have only two explanations - choice or genetics.
If I assume it's genetics, then I think why many are bi-sexual and then I look for a reason and end up at choice as reason(genetics, nah), which brings me to the first question again. Is genetics the sole reason?
Hormones are cited as reason. And then I think they certainly have enough of it for them to have the necessary organs.
And I am confused yet again.

PS : I have nothing against gays; everyone has a right to live life his own way. I'm looking for a reason that satisfies my curiosity.

On another note, I am not opposed to a gay couple adopting a child. Instead of looking at the cons of not having a father or mother in such a couple, I'd rather focus on the benefits the child will get. Food, clothes, proper education and a life he wouldn't have had at foster care.

As for scholl's concerns of handing kids out to pedophiles, nobody can assure that it can't happen. But usually proper background checks are done and there are timely inspections too by the organaisations which put children for adoption. So that does ought to reduce such occurrences. After all, children living with proper parents too are assaulted. It's an evil of society that you can never be sure when and where it'll strike.

PPS : You'd think it's weird coming from me and even I do, because intercourse against the laws of nature is a punishable crime by a maximum of 10 years in jail in my country. So there's no question of adoption cases. Governments do not have the courage to change it because it may dismay their vote-banks, I'm talking specifically about Muslims who regard being gay as taboo and Hindus, wherein such acts are not allowed and it's regarded as a shameful act. You run the risk of being boycotted. There are people of all kinds and cultures and customs here. The crime part comes only when someone has got evidence and complaints against it. So people can't come out in public.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:03 am

^ This encompasses all that I dislike in this world.

One would be inclined towards people of the same sex. Tries to fight it, maybe tries having sex with someone of the opposite sex, and finds it totally disgusting. So they're left with 3 options in the current world:

1) Live a solitary life. Never have sex. People may realise you're gay and still form bias against you. You live and die lonely.
2) You fake heterosexuality. You get married, you're disgusted every time you have sex. You're a fake. You spend your whole life sad, just so the world accepts you.
3) Live naturally, as a homosexual. In some countries you'd be murdered, in others imprisoned, and in most others you just don't have equal rights by law. On top of that, many people hate you and are biased against you. Religions don't accept you because doing what your natural instincts are telling you is, according to religions, unnatural. And that you'll go to hell or whatever. So basically you try to live a happy life, but society interferes and doesn't allow it.

Either option is always bad for the homosexual. No wonder they show aggressive behaviour against those who are campaigning against them. It's so much more important to them than it is to heterosexuals. Their happiness is involved, and not some idealistic bullshit.

So re-read the three options I posted above and then try to think why on earth someone would want to be gay by choice. Because, to me, that sounds way too masochist.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:21 am

MUTU wrote:^ This encompasses all that I dislike in this world.

One would be inclined towards people of the same sex. Tries to fight it, maybe tries having sex with someone of the opposite sex, and finds it totally disgusting. So they're left with 3 options in the current world:

1) Live a solitary life. Never have sex. People may realise you're gay and still form bias against you. You live and die lonely.
2) You fake heterosexuality. You get married, you're disgusted every time you have sex. You're a fake. You spend your whole life sad, just so the world accepts you.
3) Live naturally, as a homosexual. In some countries you'd be murdered, in others imprisoned, and in most others you just don't have equal rights by law. On top of that, many people hate you and are biased against you. Religions don't accept you because doing what your natural instincts are telling you is, according to religions, unnatural. And that you'll go to hell or whatever. So basically you try to live a happy life, but society interferes and doesn't allow it.

Either option is always bad for the homosexual. No wonder they show aggressive behaviour against those who are campaigning against them. It's so much more important to them than it is to heterosexuals. Their happiness is involved, and not some idealistic bullshit.

So re-read the three options I posted above and then try to think why on earth someone would want to be gay by choice. Because, to me, that sounds way too masochist.


I agree with the fact that these ppl will have equal rights as hetero couples as in tax, wills etc (but never call it marriage) however I repeat I am totally against their crusade to persuade us that they are the righteous ones and the fact that they will be able adopt. Because of my latter concerns countries like Russia & apparently Cambodia will not be accepting any more requests from Malta...
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Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:28 am

ramsej84, nothing is changing in Malta. Gay couples have long been adopting in Malta. The very point you're against (gay marriage) means that gays in Malta currently have a status of 'single'. Single adults are allowed to adopt children in Malta (which is stupid, mind you. Having one father and no mother is OK, but having two fathers and no mother isn't). And therefore gays are adopting children in Malta, and have been doing it for a long time.

They've also been cohabiting etc for ages.

Gay marriage and adoption is not going to change anything except for regulating them. In the same way the Catholic Church preaches not to have sex before marriage in order not to bring children into an unmarried family, it can be attributed to gays. Children ARE CURRENTLY being adopted by gay couples, in Malta, whether you like it or not. If they're brought into a MARRIED gay couple, it would at least be better for the kid, having a stable family and all that. And maybe, hopefully, the regulation process would help reduce homophobia.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCB general » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:35 am

MUTU wrote:So nature itself shows you it's natural for homosexuality to exist, and not just in humans. Just because it's a minority doesn't make it bad... that's just homophobia. Now I'm not gay myself so I don't know why I'm defending gays as such, perhaps it's because I feel they're really disadvantaged in this world, not accepted by the vast majority of people, laws and religions. And yet they're just trying to live by their true nature, same as heterosexuals.

So what? You have your way to leave, but stay away from majority. They don't want to see you and accept you, but they will tolerate you, just because people are forced through the imposed law.

I don't like that utopian shít about disadvantage, rejection, etc. We had communism and we felt the best that class "equality" for almost 50 years, so we know very well the stories about human's equality in society and so long.

I'll repeat, the nature IS CRUEL and HONEST. She/it has made some things clear; everything what is deviant, dies. There are no descendants. Homos can't create a new life, they are punished by the same nature you mentioned.

Someone who doesn't accept that has big problems. There's no democracy, political system, human rights or something what can change the nature. We all see what's going on when humans work againast nature and nature changes and make bad things to people(even far worse), as well.

I read that too about hormones, but we don't really know is that correct or not. Can that be medically treated/induced or not. We see that power of money can even make people stupid where 5 of 17 = 1/3. That's what OHR made to my people and nation in Bosnia-Herzegowina.

I'll quote myself:



FCB general wrote:Let's make a one pure example which is so simple that it cannot be simplier... If I don't want to sit at the same table and eat with some person or people because I don't like him/them or simply I have a choice to stand up and go because I just do not want to. The 1M € question is: How can somebody force me to sit with them if I don't want to?(that somebody is a law written by human hand) Just explain me that.

Where is my free will, my choice to choose with whom I'm gonna sit and eat, socialize, discuss about football, girls, forecast, color of grass, gasoline or disel fuel, why Hungary don't have an exit on sea, etc.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:46 am

MUTU wrote:^ This encompasses all that I dislike in this world.

One would be inclined towards people of the same sex. Tries to fight it, maybe tries having sex with someone of the opposite sex, and finds it totally disgusting. So they're left with 3 options in the current world:

1) Live a solitary life. Never have sex. People may realise you're gay and still form bias against you. You live and die lonely.
2) You fake heterosexuality. You get married, you're disgusted every time you have sex. You're a fake. You spend your whole life sad, just so the world accepts you.
3) Live naturally, as a homosexual. In some countries you'd be murdered, in others imprisoned, and in most others you just don't have equal rights by law. On top of that, many people hate you and are biased against you. Religions don't accept you because doing what your natural instincts are telling you is, according to religions, unnatural. And that you'll go to hell or whatever. So basically you try to live a happy life, but society interferes and doesn't allow it.

Either option is always bad for the homosexual. No wonder they show aggressive behaviour against those who are campaigning against them. It's so much more important to them than it is to heterosexuals. Their happiness is involved, and not some idealistic bullshit.

So re-read the three options I posted above and then try to think why on earth someone would want to be gay by choice. Because, to me, that sounds way too masochist.


meanwhile in Malta... [source]

Yes I know that singles can adopt and I agree : it is stupid. A law done by the previous govt.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:53 am

FCB general wrote:Let's make a one pure example which is so simple that it cannot be simplier... If I don't want to sit at the same table and eat with some person or people because I don't like him/them or simply I have a choice to stand up and go because I just do not want to. The 1M € question is: How can somebody force me to sit with them if I don't want to?(that somebody is a law written by human hand) Just explain me that.

Where is my free will, my choice to choose with whom I'm gonna sit and eat, socialize, discuss about football, girls, forecast, color of grass, gasoline or disel fuel, why Hungary don't have an exit on sea, etc.

The free will argument is bullshit. You're a bright person, you know that free will doesn't exist. Free will is the equivalent of total anarchy.

It starts with being allowed to be rude to someone and not sit with them at a table, then one day it would be about being allowed to shoot whoever you want in the head because, you know, free will.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:58 am

FCB general wrote:So what? You have your way to leave, but stay away from majority. They don't want to see you and accept you, but they will tolerate you, just because people are forced through the imposed law.


FCB general wrote:I read that too about hormones, but we don't really know is that correct or not. Can that be medically treated/induced or not.


So you want THEM to change, rather than the attire. As in, change their nature. How would you feel about government/society pressuring you into undergoing medical intervention in order to start liking men? Probably disgust, no? That's how homosexuals would feel regarding intervention. It's too unfair to impose that on them, even if it is/would be possible.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCB general » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:06 am

MUTU wrote:1) Live a solitary life. Never have sex. People may realise you're gay and still form bias against you. You live and die lonely.

Bullshít. That proves why these people are so dumb and smoke the media crap from mostly from Hollywood movies where that opinion is largely promoted.

MUTU wrote:2) You fake heterosexuality. You get married, you're disgusted every time you have sex. You're a fake. You spend your whole life sad, just so the world accepts you.

Ok. Do not get married, live you own life with your partner and die as the nature's drawn you. Nobody won't judge you, at least my people won't since my parents who are raised as very devout Catholics, know some men who live in my town for over one decade in their relationship and they have nothing against those people, but some borders must be strongly underlined. Their partnership cannot be called marriage, they must get children on the same way as normal couples.
They would even swallow that their own children are homos unlike me who couldn't imagine that.

MUTU wrote:3) Live naturally, as a homosexual. In some countries you'd be murdered, in others imprisoned, and in most others you just don't have equal rights by law.

Yes, live 'naturally', nobody shouldn't hurt you, kill you and that completely legit.

MUTU wrote:Religions don't accept you because doing what your natural instincts are telling you is, according to religions, unnatural. And that you'll go to hell or whatever.

Dogma cannot be changed by human's decision or should I say Jesus teaching cannot be interprated as something "liberal", modern, etc. Old and New Testament are very clear about those who lie with the same sex people.

I don't know who told that they'll go to hell. Nobody doesn't know precisely where he/she shall go. Maybe in hell, paradise, purgatory... But His words cannot be twisted.


Some atheists and agnostics in Croatia know a lot about RCC, dogmas, Church's teaching, etc. and they have no problems with it, but they do have problems with those 'marriages' and children adoption where they aren't not a bit different from believers.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCB general » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:18 am

MUTU wrote:The free will argument is bullshit. You're a bright person, you know that free will doesn't exist. Free will is the equivalent of total anarchy.

You think so? But I know that it is MY choice and self-control not to brake the human laws, kill someone, but I can do all kind of things if I want.

Even in that 'total anarchy' there is also a hierarchy. I read lots of discussions and opinions about this what we are talking here. I'm far from anarchist, I can't stand them. But when I see what is democracy in 21st century, sometimes I think that the natives in tent are more realistic and honest than those puppies in expensive suits who are 'elected' by the 'majority'.

MUTU wrote:It starts with being allowed to be rude to someone and not sit with them at a table, then one day it would be about being allowed to shoot whoever you want in the head because, you know, free will.

:lol:

But yeah, tell exactly what prevent us to do all kind of things? Laws written by human hand, God? Nobody doesn't prevent anyone to do many of things.

MUTU wrote:So you want THEM to change, rather than the attire. As in, change their nature. How would you feel about government/society pressuring you into undergoing medical intervention in order to start liking men? Probably disgust, no? That's how homosexuals would feel regarding intervention. It's too unfair to impose that on them, even if it is/would be possible.

Well, not me personally. But I've heard some people talking about these things. I read 3 years ago one foreign article where one Dutch talked about conversions 40-50 years ago, where they left that kind of behavior after they were treated by him personally in his clinic. After that, over night everything changed through political decision to put away homosexuallity from (mental) disease and his clinic was shut down after he helped thousands of men and women to be like usual people with women/men.

I don't have anything against them, but I'm not obligated to accept someone's orientation. Tolerance yes, acceptance no. That's my choice. Everything rest I would consider as personal discrimination, restriction of my rights and freedoms to think what I want.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby AdepT » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:19 am

MUTU wrote:^ This encompasses all that I dislike in this world.

One would be inclined towards people of the same sex. Tries to fight it, maybe tries having sex with someone of the opposite sex, and finds it totally disgusting. So they're left with 3 options in the current world:

1) Live a solitary life. Never have sex. People may realise you're gay and still form bias against you. You live and die lonely.
2) You fake heterosexuality. You get married, you're disgusted every time you have sex. You're a fake. You spend your whole life sad, just so the world accepts you.
3) Live naturally, as a homosexual. In some countries you'd be murdered, in others imprisoned, and in most others you just don't have equal rights by law. On top of that, many people hate you and are biased against you. Religions don't accept you because doing what your natural instincts are telling you is, according to religions, unnatural. And that you'll go to hell or whatever. So basically you try to live a happy life, but society interferes and doesn't allow it.

Either option is always bad for the homosexual. No wonder they show aggressive behaviour against those who are campaigning against them. It's so much more important to them than it is to heterosexuals. Their happiness is involved, and not some idealistic bullshit.

So re-read the three options I posted above and then try to think why on earth someone would want to be gay by choice. Because, to me, that sounds way too masochist.

I believe that there are only two reasons for doing anything in this world - choice or genetics.
Why do people do any other stuff? Why does someone hate something? Why does someone like something? Why does someone kill someone?
Some are choices, some genetics, somewhere there's fine lines. I think of things like this.
I have not studied into all the medical reasons for being gay so I guess I won't argue on that. :)
I have only heard of people quoting hormonal reasons. I'll probably look for a detailed study. :)

As for the rules in different societies/cultures, I wish I could do anything about it.
Someday I guess everyone will let others live the way they want.

My principle of life is 'Do what you want without hurting anyone else'. And I don't bring hurting beliefs into that boundary.

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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:20 am

FCB general wrote:
MUTU wrote:1) Live a solitary life. Never have sex. People may realise you're gay and still form bias against you. You live and die lonely.

Bullshít. That proves why these people are so dumb and smoke the media crap from mostly from Hollywood movies where that opinion is largely promoted.

Why bullshit? This is the option that the Catholic Church preaches. If you're gay, you should not act upon it, that's what they say. In fact there were some rumours that the previous Pope (Benedikt) is gay. That's OK for the Church, as long as he remains single.

FCB general wrote:
MUTU wrote:2) You fake heterosexuality. You get married, you're disgusted every time you have sex. You're a fake. You spend your whole life sad, just so the world accepts you.

Ok. Do not get married, live you own life with your partner and die as the nature's drawn you. Nobody won't judge you, at least my people won't since my parents who are raised as very devout Catholics, know some men who live in my town for over one decade in their relationship and they have nothing against those people, but some borders must be strongly underlined. Their partnership cannot be called marriage, they must get children on the same way as normal couples.
They would even swallow that their own children are homos unlike me who couldn't imagine that.

Still, this is an option. Living a lie. I personally know of two people who, at the age of over 50, their partners left them and the family because they finally decided to come out and admit that they're gay/lesbian. Their life was a sham, and can you imagine the effect it had on the poor partner and kids?

FCB general wrote:
MUTU wrote:3) Live naturally, as a homosexual. In some countries you'd be murdered, in others imprisoned, and in most others you just don't have equal rights by law.

Yes, live 'naturally', nobody shouldn't hurt you, kill you and that completely legit.

Depends. In some places, they will literally kill you. If you're homosexual, you can't be public about it and live in such countries, or you'd soon be murdered.


FCB general wrote:
MUTU wrote:Religions don't accept you because doing what your natural instincts are telling you is, according to religions, unnatural. And that you'll go to hell or whatever.

Dogma cannot be changed by human's decision or should I say Jesus teaching cannot be interprated as something "liberal", modern, etc. Old and New Testament are very clear about those who lie with the same sex people.

I don't know who told that they'll go to hell. Nobody doesn't know precisely where he/she shall go. Maybe in hell, paradise, purgatory... But His words cannot be twisted.


Some atheists and agnostics in Croatia know a lot about RCC, dogmas, Church's teaching, etc. and they have no problems with it, but they do have problems with those 'marriages' and children adoption where they aren't not a bit different from believers.

Whatever the reasons are, religions still don't accept you.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:27 am

FCB general wrote:I don't have anything against them, but I'm not obligated to accept someone's orientation. Tolerance yes, acceptance no. That's my choice. Everything rest I would consider as personal discrimination, restriction of my rights and freedoms to think what I want.

The problem is that if there was a worldwide study, I'd say most people in the world don't even tolerate them. I'm like you, I don't fully accept them. As in, I don't mind seeing a guy and a girl kissing. And I certainly don't mind seeing two girls kissing :oops: . But I feel uneasy/disgusted seeing two guys kissing. I guess it's a small form of homophobia. Or maybe because society conditioned me to think it's taboo and wrong, and if people were more open about it and more open-minded, then perhaps it would feel normal.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby AdepT » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:33 am

As far religions not accepting gay people, there's no killing in my country. That would be too idiotic.
Boycott/ending of relations, is something that I have heard happens , not in all cases though. Parents have come out supporting their children in many cases.

MUTU wrote:
FCB general wrote:I don't have anything against them, but I'm not obligated to accept someone's orientation. Tolerance yes, acceptance no. That's my choice. Everything rest I would consider as personal discrimination, restriction of my rights and freedoms to think what I want.

The problem is that if there was a worldwide study, I'd say most people in the world don't even tolerate them. I'm like you, I don't fully accept them. As in, I don't mind seeing a guy and a girl kissing. And I certainly don't mind seeing two girls kissing :oops: . But I feel uneasy/disgusted seeing two guys kissing. I guess it's a small form of homophobia. Or maybe because society conditioned me to think it's taboo and wrong, and if people were more open about it and more open-minded, then perhaps it would feel normal.

My view is that of acceptance by indifference. It doesn't affect me.
About the girl part, hahaha. Same here. :oops: :P
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:40 am

AdepT wrote:there's no killing in my country. That would be too idiotic.

In Russia there is though.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/81571 ... -new-level
http://www.advocate.com/news/world-news ... ng-gay-man

AdepT wrote:About the girl part, hahaha. Same here. :oops: :P

:) Now if you were adopted by a lesbian couple, you'd probably not look at lesbians in the same way ;) haha
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