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Re: Toni Kroos

Postby Tedesco » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:30 am

I do read a lot from the Guardian, but the problem is that the coverage from the BuLi is puny. And as with all british papers, the anti-german rants kinda annoy me sometimes.

Rafael Honigstein is a great writer I like very much his articles.
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Re: Toni Kroos

Postby tflags » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:43 pm

Bazi wrote:Well the likes of Sid Lowe, Gab Marcotti and Rafael Honigstein


Lowe's exposures of the many Spanish press fallacies are epic. Worth following on that topic alone. Marcotti tries to cover too much and he can be too viral sometimes; I think he is still waiting for Neuer to blunder up after bashing him for a month or so. Another problem with Marcotti is that he writes mostly for online paid-subscription-only newspapers; WSJ & The Times included.
Honigstein is something we have discussed before. Actually surprised to see him on that list.
Hesse, oh please God no. I mean, maybe if I wanted a history lesson in football...

The Guardian football podcast is very decent as well, even if it covers German football for only 10% of the time.
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Re: Italian football

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:52 pm

I know this isnt football related but i just happened to stumble upon it :mrgreen:
Spoiler: show
The parents of 16-year-old gymnast Simone Biles, who won the women's all-around gold medal at the World Championships last week, are ready to move on but they aren't quite ready to forgive Italy's Carlotta Ferlito for a racist comment made during the competition.

"I found it very insulting," Biles' father, Ron, told USA Today. "The racial comment was really out of line."

Simone Biles edged U.S. teammate Kyla Ross by less than a point to win the women's all-around gold medal at the world gymnastics championships.
After fellow Italian Vanessa Ferrari and Ferlito finished fourth and fifth on balance beam -- just behind Biles -- Ferlito said with a laugh during a video interview, "I told Vane that next time we'll have our skin black also so we can win, too."

Biles became the first black gymnast to become world champion. At last year's London Games, Gabby Douglas became the first black woman to win the Olympic all-around title.

"It did bother her," Nellie Biles, Simone's mother, told USA Today. "I told her, 'Don't get roped into this' and, 'Don't let those comments ruin this moment for you. Just be proud of your performance and outcome.' People are entitled to their opinion. For her to go into this racism stuff is pointless, and (Simone) is not going to address it."

Ferlito apologized Tuesday on Twitter for the comments.

"I want to apologize with the Americans girls. I didn't want to sound rude or racist. I love Simone and I'm a huge fan of USA gymnastics," Ferlito tweeted. "I've made a mistake, I'm not perfect ... I didn't think about what I was saying. I'm just a human. I'm so so sorry."

Biles returned home to Spring, Texas, on Tuesday.

"The little girls at the gym are freaking out a little bit, saying hi and giving me hugs and stuff, but that's it," Biles told USA Today.

Ron Biles said Simone is ready to move on.

"She's not fazed by it," Ron Biles said.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:04 am

Now how is that a racist comment? She was implying that if you have black skin you would win, ie you're better. It was actually the opposite of a racist comment, saying that blacks are superior. If anything, it should have been the other Caucasian athletes who should have been offended... Or did I miss something?
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Re: Italian football

Postby MaCk0y » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:42 am

MUTU wrote:Now how is that a racist comment? She was implying that if you have black skin you would win, ie you're better. It was actually the opposite of a racist comment, saying that blacks are superior. If anything, it should have been the other Caucasian athletes who should have been offended... Or did I miss something?


I think she was implying favouritism towards black people.

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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:51 am

Oh, because judges give points in that sport? In that case you're right.
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Re: Italian football

Postby quaazi » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:58 am

MUTU wrote:It was actually the opposite of a racist comment, saying that blacks are superior.

naw, that's still racism by its strictest definition, mate, for it implies inferiority of another race.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:12 am

For a comment to be racist, it needs to be derogatory in my opinion. I see absolutely nothing wrong with a "you guys are better than us!" comment.

By your argument, if I was to say "Germans make the best beer" that would be racist, since I'd be implying the rest of the world is inferior at making beer, even though I'm part of the "rest of the world" myself?
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Re: Italian football

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:29 am

There are many forms of racism. However IMO one is racist by for example declining a person from being chosen for a job just because of his skin colour / race / religion / sex orientation / disability etc AND not if he call him black / brown / red / yellow / white etc
I am white; so if somebody calls me '' white'' he will be saying the truth... there is no offence in that :)
The same happened in the Evra v Suarez saga... that episode left me thinking that Evra is not happy with himself :?
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Re: Italian football

Postby Borusse » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:41 am

Didnt even read the article but from what you said it definitely sounds racist. Black people have it easier at winning or whatever because the jury will be afraid of being accused of descriminating them. So it is kind of racist because it makes you look differently at someone because of their skin color. But again - I didnt read the article.
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Re: Italian football

Postby quaazi » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:45 am

MUTU wrote:For a comment to be racist, it needs to be derogatory in my opinion. I see absolutely nothing wrong with a "you guys are better than us!" comment.

I don't either, but it is still defined as a racist comment, if one wished for it to be. :P

MUTU wrote:By your argument, if I was to say "Germans make the best beer" that would be racist, since I'd be implying the rest of the world is inferior at making beer, even though I'm part of the "rest of the world" myself?

Well, usually we don't think of beer-making-capability as a fundamental biological trait inherent in racial features, so no.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:47 am

Borusse wrote:Didnt even read the article but from what you said it definitely sounds racist. Black people have it easier at winning or whatever because the jury will be afraid of being accused of descriminating them. So it is kind of racist because it makes you look differently at someone because of their skin color. But again - I didnt read the article.


Even if it's the case, then they were implying that the judges were racists (favouring blacks). How is it racism if you claim someone gave preferential treatment to a race?

Person A implies Person B is a racist.
Person C calls Person A a racist for implying Person B is racist.

No logical sense to my programmer's mind, otherwise it will be an infinite loop: Person D could call Person C a racist for calling Person A a racist.
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Re: Italian football

Postby MUTU » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:49 am

quaazi wrote:
MUTU wrote:By your argument, if I was to say "Germans make the best beer" that would be racist, since I'd be implying the rest of the world is inferior at making beer, even though I'm part of the "rest of the world" myself?

Well, usually we don't think of beer-making-capability as a fundamental biological trait inherent in racial features, so no.

So it has to be a biological trait? So how about this:

"Blacks are generally better athletes"

That racist?!
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Re: Italian football

Postby MoFattal » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:01 pm

Or "white men can't jump" ;)
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Re: Italian football

Postby AdepT » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:26 pm

Discrimination on the basis of race is 'racist'. How that discrimination is taken on by an individual belonging to that race or neutral to a situation has nothing to do with it. It's usually when a set of people, affected or not see it as derogatory that a furore starts.

So yes, MUTU, saying blacks are better athletes is a racist statement.
It might not be meant as derogatory/insulting but it is a discrimination on the basis of race.

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I got blamed for such an incident when all I had merely said was that people in South India tend to have dark skin because of geographical reasons compared to North India where most of them are not so because of similar reasons. It was discriminatory and two friends of mine got pissed when I never meant it as insulting as we were discussing about what effect climate plays in one's upbringing.


It's a very broad subject and there are no clear lines. Perceptions differ from person to person. :|
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