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Re: Documentaries

Postby #12 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:14 pm

First of all, yes, the numbers of Mutu are more accurate - by far! ;)
And I was not taught anything, it's there for everybody to see... I know very well that winners make history, but even of we didn't talk about Shoa/Holocaust altogether, we're talking about a war here that cost 50m people's lives... Many of those Germans as well... Coventry... London... Long years of war, people bein weary of it... That's not an excuse, but an explanation... Maybe that air strike was not neccessary to win the war... But in times of "Volkssturm" (so much for the innocent ;) ) and holding out just because they were afraid of what would come after the war (hereby implying that many actually DID know...) it was clearly something that broke morale of Dresdeners...
And many of those Dresdeners were in support of said war back when it was Germany (and Germany ONLY!) inflicted, and they still were on the winning side... Also, you caught me at a very sensitive topic because Dresden actually IS exploited for propaganda by right-wing parties (&extremists) ALL THE TIME... As is this video... Took me like 10 seconds to figue that out ;)
Partisanship doesn't stop with the winners, you know... ;)
War is not a pretty thing - but there would have been no war if it wasn't for the support of most of those Dresdeners as well... War is actually horrible... Which makes it all the more striking that only one or two generations later this is actually the Neo-Nazi capital of Germany with people beong violent to war refugees all the time... The same people that complain about those bombings every year - now that's what I call a paradox...

On a different note: I feel for humans, not Germans... I have a sense of nationality and I identify with this country - but the life of a German isn't worth more than that of anybody else... With all that happened in the last few days, Facebook could be crawling with flags and stuff, people showing sympathy and posting condolences... But there's none of it... Probably because it was "only" Jews... Mad world...
Thanks for nothing, :pep: !!
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Re: Documentaries

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:16 pm

But you are negating what happened there??? Amazing...
Don't put the refugees in the equation cause it has nothing to do.
I ve found that on youtube I did not search anything on a far right page or something as you might be implicating...
You said that Dresderners mark this every year... So do the Russians at a particular date and Jews on January 26/27 and rightly so. So what is wrong to remember those innocent ppl who melted because of the fire bombs?
After all it is "never again" right?
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Re: Documentaries

Postby MUTU » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:33 pm

If you want to talk about what the allies did during world war II, Dresden is nothing compared to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nobody is saying Dresden wasn't bad. Everybody admits that it was immoral (except some extremists) but the problem is that it IS used for propaganda. I read the same thing separately from what #12 said.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby tflags » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:16 pm

Were the Allies involved in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? I thought that was a one man show tbh.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby ottackon » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:17 pm

Great documentary I highly recommend

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Re: Documentaries

Postby JANKER » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:38 pm

"Football is very simple." - Kaiser Franck
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Re: Documentaries

Postby pyrasur » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:50 pm

ramsej84 wrote:But you are negating what happened there??? Amazing...
Don't put the refugees in the equation cause it has nothing to do.
I ve found that on youtube I did not search anything on a far right page or something as you might be implicating...
You said that Dresderners mark this every year... So do the Russians at a particular date and Jews on January 26/27 and rightly so. So what is wrong to remember those innocent ppl who melted because of the fire bombs?
After all it is "never again" right?


It is a war with civilian casualties on both sides. As the nation farthest removed, the USA suffered the least on this front. Luckily for Germany the USA ended up the dominant allied power over France and Britain. The retribution the French and British would probably have been more severe. For Germans enough justice has been exacted. To try to bring this up again for political points only serves the purposes of the extreme right wing German nationalist parties, and in any case the other European countries have claims against Germany they can bring up but have instead laid down in the name of peace. In my opinion it is up to us Germans whether or not we want to bring it up, not with all due respect to a foreigner.

Japan should consider themselves lucky as well. They only recently settled a case for payments to comfort women in Korea and apologized. Too bad all but two are alive now to see justice done.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
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Re: Documentaries

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:09 pm

pyrasur wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:But you are negating what happened there??? Amazing...
Don't put the refugees in the equation cause it has nothing to do.
I ve found that on youtube I did not search anything on a far right page or something as you might be implicating...
You said that Dresderners mark this every year... So do the Russians at a particular date and Jews on January 26/27 and rightly so. So what is wrong to remember those innocent ppl who melted because of the fire bombs?
After all it is "never again" right?


It is a war with civilian casualties on both sides. As the nation farthest removed, the USA suffered the least on this front. Luckily for Germany the USA ended up the dominant allied power over France and Britain. The retribution the French and British would probably have been more severe. For Germans enough justice has been exacted. To try to bring this up again for political points only serves the purposes of the extreme right wing German nationalist parties, and in any case the other European countries have claims against Germany they can bring up but have instead laid down in the name of peace. In my opinion it is up to us Germans whether or not we want to bring it up, not with all due respect to a foreigner.

Japan should consider themselves lucky as well. They only recently settled a case for payments to comfort women in Korea and apologized. Too bad all but two are alive now to see justice done.
ok forgive me I wont do it again.
But some can say whatever they like for their propoganda while others can't say what happened to them.
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Last edited by ramsej84 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby #12 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:16 pm

ramsej84 wrote:But you are negating what happened there??? Amazing...
Don't put the refugees in the equation cause it has nothing to do.
I ve found that on youtube I did not search anything on a far right page or something as you might be implicating...
You said that Dresderners mark this every year... So do the Russians at a particular date and Jews on January 26/27 and rightly so. So what is wrong to remember those innocent ppl who melted because of the fire bombs?
After all it is "never again" right?


No... I am merely putting it into the right perspective... 300.000 people... :^o :^o That's far more than half of TODAY'S population of Dresden... Historians all around the world agree on a FAR lower number... And the only ones denying it are not actually historians, they give no proof whatsoever for their claims and they probably never even read a book on their own... (I was actually shocked to see quite a few of those "books" from these "authors" when I went shopping a few days ago... In a clothing store, but still...)

I'm just mentioning refugees for the paradox...

And I wasn't implicating anything, just that you have a kind heart and you back your country/continent so you're probably a little receptive for these things...

Nothing is wrong with remembering, au contraire, but we have to remember in the right way... Also, why Dresden in particular? If it was only for the victims, there are WAYY more... Some dumbass decided to throw away the lives of more than 500.000 soldiers in a single battle that was as important strategically as is a coach taking a leak at FT... ;)
Thanks for nothing, :pep: !!
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Re: Documentaries

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:50 pm

This is my last post on Dresden,,, but I wanted to tell you that at that very moment there were refugees in Dresden escaping from the red army...
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Re: Documentaries

Postby #12 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:09 pm

There were... I never said this was "not so bad" or anything... I was just raising awareness (or trying to) for the fact that it is exploited much...
Thanks for nothing, :pep: !!
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Re: Documentaries

Postby ottackon » Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:25 am

One of the greatest scientists of all time

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Re: Documentaries

Postby FCB general » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:15 am

What a genius he was... However, Edison didn't like him at all. :|
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Re: Documentaries

Postby JANKER » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:23 am

FCB general wrote:What a genius he was... However, Edison didn't like him at all. :|


Edison and other big corporations... because he wanted to make stuff free for a lifetime.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby FCB general » Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:31 am

JANKER wrote:
FCB general wrote:What a genius he was... However, Edison didn't like him at all. :|


Edison and other big corporations... because he wanted to make stuff free for a lifetime.

Exactly. A genius with an obsessive-compulsive disorder. That's why he was so dangerous and unwanted. He didn't watch the world through the same glasses as the others. We all know where and how he died and what has left after him.

They say many better and bigger ideas weren't realized, but he was the only one who could understand the principles of what he patented. Even back then, corporations were bitching around. What is going on today? The same or even worse. Protagonists are the same. So sad... :roll:
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