You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

Do you believe in God?

A place where you can chill out with the BayernForum.com community and talk about anything.
 

Do you believe in God(s)?

Yes, I believe in the God of Abraham.
6
35%
Yes, I believe in a God or Gods other than the God of Abraham.
1
6%
Yes, but I am not a practising believer.
1
6%
I believe there is an unknown force or existence which is not a God (e.g. alternate realities).
1
6%
I don't know.
0
No votes
No, but I believe there is an afterlife.
0
No votes
No, but I believe in reincarnation.
0
No votes
No, I am an atheist.
5
29%
No, I am an agnostic.
3
18%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 17

Do you believe in God?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:54 am

On-topic follow up to the past few days' discussion.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31391
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8843 times
Been thanked: 7447 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:51 pm

There's a spiritual side of me that says there could be a God but he is more of an observer and has no interest in human affairs but...there's the logical side of me that also believe in:

Omnipotence Paradox

The omnipotence paradox is a family of related paradoxes addressing the question of whether the existence of an omnipotent entity is logically possible. The paradox states that if a being can perform any action, then it should be able to create a task it is unable to perform, and hence, it cannot perform all actions.
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 14048
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: USA
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 4680 times
Been thanked: 2976 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:58 pm

The Apostles Creed

A prayer of Faith in the teaching of Jesus and His Church.
I believe in God,
the Father Almighty,
Creator of Heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day, He rose again.
He ascended to Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting. Amen.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 27227
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 22178 times
Been thanked: 6212 times
Gender: Male

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby icewizard » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:01 pm

For me, it's simply illogical that there is no superior being to create everything we live in... And this is the result of logical thinking, not because i'm practicing a religion and following it blindly in matters of belief.

As a friend of mine said in french: "A chaque toile, son artiste" which means, "to every painting, its artist"... What about the creator of the universe?
User avatar
icewizard
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:54 am
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 118 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Do you believe in God?

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:06 pm

icewizard wrote:For me, it's simply illogical that there is no superior being to create everything we live in... And this is the result of logical thinking, not because i'm practicing a religion and following it blindly in matters of belief.

As a friend of mine said in french: "A chaque toile, son artiste" which means, "to every painting, its artist"... What about the creator of the universe?

Since you want to use logical reasoning instead of faith how would you solve the riddle of the omnipotence paradox? Can a God create a task it cannot accomplish and still be declared omnipotent?
Welcome to the Allianz Arena....

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
User avatar
Firefox1234
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 14048
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 1:42 am
Location: USA
National Flag:
Kenya
Has thanked: 4680 times
Been thanked: 2976 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby nm462272 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:15 pm

as in all things, one must weigh all available evidence in order to reach a conclusion. there are many levels to this as part of the "god" question:

1. Is there evidence of a higher power?
2. if so, is there evidence that this higher power is capable of thought?
3. if so, is there evidence that this higher power is the subject of a certain religion, and if so - why?

if you believe your religion is THE true religion, you need to ask yourself if these questions are all proven true. otherwise, it's not logically sound to believe in religion at all, let alone your particular religion.

As it currently stands, the evidence we've collected over the past hundred or so years clearly points towards a natural evolution of the universe and our own planet. There is little or no evidence that directly points towards a higher power. Now, one could question what happened before the big bang, as we cannot know what happened before it, but since then it's pretty clear.
Des interessiert mi ois ned, der Scheißdreck. Weltmeister samma! Den Pott hamma! Den scheiß goldener Schuh kannst da hinter d’Ohr’n schmiern! - Mia San Mia

Euer Hass ist unser Stolz!
User avatar
nm462272
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2851
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:54 am
Location: München/Atlanta/New York City
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 2678 times
Been thanked: 1221 times
Gender: Male

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby Hardrade » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:28 pm

Haven't found a solid reason yet. I keep asking "what do I get?" and they keep answering "Hell - if you keep asking that". So it really ain't no mystery why it's a mystery to me.
Cría cuervos, y te sacarán los ojos
User avatar
Hardrade
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:27 pm
Location: Belgrade
National Flag:
Serbia and Montenegro
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 145 times
Gender: Male

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby JANCKER » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:43 pm

“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” MATTHEW 24:14
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17591
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9162 times
Been thanked: 8472 times
Gender: Male

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:12 pm

Like almost everyone in Malta I was raised as a Roman Catholic. From a young age I used to read up about religion and during cathechism lessons I used to know more than the other children. I even gave the traditional (not sure if it's just a Maltese thing) Christmas child sermon once. :lol:

Then I spent 7 wonderful years in a Jesuit school but around halfway through them I started to move away from the Catholic religion. This was a mixture of disagreeing with the Church on a number of things (which we've discussed many times in other threads), particularly the issue of divorce which was put to a referendum in Malta around this time, and also normal teenage rebellion against authority. Around this time I started toying with the idea of omnism, which means believing that all religions have some aspect of the truth and have something good to teach us. This didn't last long but it did make me think more, for example about some of the points brought forward by other users (like the fact that there has to be something that came out of nothing, whether you call it God or nature; and the omnipotence paradox). Eventually I did start believing in Christianity more again until I was around 18.

I attribute my divorce with the Church to my university education to be honest. The study of art, literature, philosophy, and mythology made it very hard not to see religions work in exactly the same way as the transfer of other ideas do. Then considering that other disciplines (science, occasionally history) also contradict it, and the political and social effects religion has had on Europe and the Muslim world in particular, I turned away and have so far never returned (and it's highly unlikely I will).

That said, I have never considered myself to be quite an atheist, in a broad sense rather than just belief in a supernatual god. I do believe there is something, whether that is a God or Gods, or reincarnation, or parallel universes, or whatever. I just believe there is some kind of higher plane, maybe even some unexplained phenomena in our own existence. I don't think any religion is the "true" one though and I also think it is impossible for us to ever know what (or even if there is) is exactly out there. For this reason, I do not fully subscribe to any form of belief and my ideas change from time to time. Over the past year or so I've read up on and thought about ideas such as simulation theory and I think they have a lot of food for thought; I'm not saying I believe this is the case or anything though. However - subject to change - I find it both plausible and more likely than the mythologies of most religions at this point in time.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31391
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8843 times
Been thanked: 7447 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:13 pm

On another note: I do hope our Muslim friends contribute to this discussion because so far I've only had the pleasure of debating these things with Catholics, atheists, and people like me.
Super Bayern! Super Bayern! Hey! Hey!
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 31391
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8843 times
Been thanked: 7447 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 pm

Modern devout practicing Muslim perspective coming soon :P Need to find the time.

Firefox1234 wrote:There's a spiritual side of me that says there could be a God but he is more of an observer and has no interest in human affairs but...there's the logical side of me that also believe in:

Omnipotence Paradox

The omnipotence paradox is a family of related paradoxes addressing the question of whether the existence of an omnipotent entity is logically possible. The paradox states that if a being can perform any action, then it should be able to create a task it is unable to perform, and hence, it cannot perform all actions.


For all matters and purposes, if there is a God or if there is not, who cares? How does this paradox prove or disprove God as the creator of the universe?
User avatar
Dumbledore7
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2930
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: London
National Flag:
Indonesia
Has thanked: 2033 times
Been thanked: 1857 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby nm462272 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:03 pm

JANCKER wrote:“And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” MATTHEW 24:14


quoting scriptures and prayers is not proof of anything...
Des interessiert mi ois ned, der Scheißdreck. Weltmeister samma! Den Pott hamma! Den scheiß goldener Schuh kannst da hinter d’Ohr’n schmiern! - Mia San Mia

Euer Hass ist unser Stolz!
User avatar
nm462272
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2851
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:54 am
Location: München/Atlanta/New York City
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 2678 times
Been thanked: 1221 times
Gender: Male

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby Cathe » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:25 pm

I dont believe in a god. I think its ok if other people do. I personally don't care even if someone worships a dead mouse as long as they don't try to force it on me... but I just don't believe in it. I take part when my choir has to sing religious songs at a local church at christmas. I enjoy some of them. I even enjoy some of the stories the church tells.... but I enjoy them as stories, if that makes any sense?
Bayern - Anime - Gaming - Takarazuka
User avatar
Cathe
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 465
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:05 pm
Location: Liverpool
National Flag:
England
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 91 times
Gender: Female
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby aterford » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:49 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:
icewizard wrote:For me, it's simply illogical that there is no superior being to create everything we live in... And this is the result of logical thinking, not because i'm practicing a religion and following it blindly in matters of belief.

As a friend of mine said in french: "A chaque toile, son artiste" which means, "to every painting, its artist"... What about the creator of the universe?

Since you want to use logical reasoning instead of faith how would you solve the riddle of the omnipotence paradox? Can a God create a task it cannot accomplish and still be declared omnipotent?


For me this paradox is not logically sound.
Omnipotence, in my understanding, means having unlimited power and the ability to do anything that can be done.
I reject the notion that omnipotence is 100% without limits. I cannot speak for other religions so much, but the Christian understands that our God is still a logical god - he follows the rules of logic (though, perhaps not always in ways we understand), and yet isn't limited in this regard.
And so again I will state it this way: God can do everything that it is possible to do. God's omnipotence extends as far as his nature allows. We know that God cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18). God cannot make 1+1 = 3 because this would betray his very nature and make him a liar.
What manner of task could God create and then be unable to accomplish? Generally speaking, I believe it's implied in our understanding of the word "task" that the "ability to be accomplished" is an essential quality of any such task. So on the surface, I would have to say that I reject the notion that a task that is impossible to accomplish can logically exist. It tends to betray itself. Either it can be accomplished, or it cannot exist.

This is generally presented in simpler terms such as "Can God create a rock so big he can't move it" or similar questions. Again, this does not hold up logically. As we know, a rock is a physical object. Rocks, by definition, are limited by such physics....and as it is, no matter how large, any rock that could ever be created would have to be able to be moved with the right amount of force applied. There is no possible way for any created object to be too large to move, with enough force. It is akin to asking "Can God divide by zero?" or "Can God create a triangle with four sides?" No, of course he cannot. Because these things do not exist. A triangle can only ever exist with three sides. If it has four sides, it ceases to be triangle. Similarly, a rock can only ever be a movable object. If it becomes immovable - without the possibility of being moved under any circumstance - it ceases to check the necessary criteria to remain a "rock". All such tasks mentioned are "pseudo-tasks" and it's not limiting in any way to say that God is unable to perform such nonsensical tasks that, by definition, cannot exist. Such tasks presented in said paradox are inherently self-contradictory. At the end of the day the paradox in question is simple sophistry. It requires a non-rational approach to meet a non-rational end which is then used to create a rational claim. It simply doesn't make any sense, save for perhaps grammatically.
User avatar
aterford
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1597
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am
Has thanked: 1415 times
Been thanked: 863 times
Gender: Male

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:58 pm

Who do you pray for protection to you and your family?
To whom do you say Thanks when you open your eyes in the morning?
Do you pray for the souls of those who left before you?

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 27227
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 22178 times
Been thanked: 6212 times
Gender: Male

Next

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests