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Re: American members

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:05 pm

#12 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Communist BS. And why is the government owner of the land anyway?


Well, then, why should "the government" (actually, it's the state, as the government is replaceable... ;) ) own anything? ;)

Also, you're a little fast and loose with the word "communist"... Thing is: IMHO he should reimbuse the state or the state should take what's his by force... Just an idiot IMHO... ;) Nithing more...

I don't make a distinction between government and state because I think "state" is an illusory concept product of socialistic idealism. And, no, I don't think the state or government should own pretty much anything besides the very essential properties required to fulfill its security and justice functions. Of course I'm being loose with the use of the term "communist", that goes without saying, but the idea underlining the story is essentially socialistic; that everything private citizens achieve, they owe to "society" (another ephemeral concept which means actually means "government" to the ones who spouse that sort of view). Haven't seen the video on top though, so I don't know if the text refers to some sort of real life scenario :D

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Re: American members

Postby #12 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:23 pm

Nah, they don't "owe" anything... But if "the government" owns the land there is no customary right for his claims, easy as that... This is Capitalism, and even though there are Darwinistic tendencies in that concept, it's not okay to take things you don't own by force, because it's also democracy... ;)
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Re: American members

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:35 pm

I believe in the Lockean principle of homesteading and AFAICare, land owned by "the state" is unowned.

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Re: American members

Postby JANKER » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:56 pm

If someone works a land for 100 years, it becomes his... In different countries there are special laws for that, don't know about the US.
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Re: American members

Postby pyrasur » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:44 pm

DerKaiser wrote:Rednecks are being used as pawns by the wealthy inorder to privatize all land, so the richies can swoop down and buy it all. Rednecks think they will get it themselves and are just utter fools.

and for the fool here uttering words like communism cause your masters taught you to, since when should a government not possess wealth in the form of property and what about National Parks.

You are form fed corn starched lies so much you no longer take the time to read, wait its time... increase your medication


I think it's time for you to calm down. Obviously politics are a sensitive subject but if you aren't going to have a reasonable debate about it I think it's best avoided altogether.
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Re: American members

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:50 pm

DerKaiser wrote:Rednecks are being used as pawns by the wealthy inorder to privatize all land, so the richies can swoop down and buy it all. Rednecks think they will get it themselves and are just utter fools.

and for the fool here uttering words like communism cause your masters taught you to, since when should a government not possess wealth in the form of property and what about National Parks.

You are form fed corn starched lies so much you no longer take the time to read, wait its time... increase your medication

I, unlike you, live under a regime which is as close to communism as it gets outside N. Korea and Cuba, so don't come with your "you don't know what socialism is" and "you're drinking the Illuminati Kool Aid" BS. I know very F#&$-# well what socialism is, much better than you.

In fact, I just came home from the super market, were there is 1h+ line of people outside waiting to get in so they can buy 1 (one) pack of 12 (twelve) rolls of toilet paper. That's as much as we are allowed to buy in a week... IF we are lucky enough to find a supermarket which carries them. That's were that kinda of BS socialistic thinking goes.

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Re: American members

Postby pyrasur » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:46 am

**** dude... My grandparents escaped from the Communists in the '40s, and so I've always been brought up to be wary because it starts small, but parties seize power and never stop taking power. And unfortunately people in government have only pressure to meet minimum standards of performance, there is no pressure to excel or take risks in order to do well. And those are the good people in government. Then you are constantly fighting crony backroom dealing, unions holding the country to ransom because we can't be free to find anyone else to do the job.

Here in the US you now have to buy a certain type of insurance for this, the government mandates you be taught a certain perspective, etc. It's always out of good intentions because there are idiots who will hurt themselves, but it never ends and regulations have to be added to reinforce the first set and there were some unforeseen side effects so now actually we need a third set of restrictions. In New York City even the allegedly Republican mayor at the time decided people weren't capable of accepting the consequences of their own decision making, and that he should make decisions for people and ban large soft drinks (apparently he didn't think the People were smart enough to get refills). The actual instigating factor was that the health care system had been socialized, so people becoming fat and developing health issues now had a financial cost for everyone.

The government should exist to provide for defense and to ensure no one abridges the rights of another person. Other than that I already have one mother I don't need a second.
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Re: American members

Postby tflags » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:59 am

pyrasur wrote:but it never ends and regulations have to be added to reinforce the first set and there were some unforeseen side effects so now actually we need a third set of restrictions. In New York City even the allegedly Republican mayor at the time decided people weren't capable of accepting the consequences of their own decision making, and that he should make decisions for people and ban large soft drinks (apparently he didn't think the People were smart enough to get refills). The actual instigating factor was that the health care system had been socialized, so people becoming fat and developing health issues now had a financial cost for everyone.


Not to intrude into this conversation which I have very little interest in following (and actually might try to deviate from) but this caught my eye and I wanted to say that Bloomberg's move to limit the soda's sizes was every bit necessary and purposeful.

Having read quite a few books on the matter of health and some introvert documentaries on American food conglomerates, you simply can't expect an 11 year old minority kid from the 'hoods to know that a 20 oz that came in his .99 combo bought in a place closer to happiness as he will probably ever get is three sizes too big for what he should really be eating.

There's the matter of price (he can't go everyday and get better food for that price), the matter of size (humans should not be drinking more than 12 oz -at most- of any type of drink during meals) and the matter of marketing (the use of images and logos to attract young people who clearly don't know better.)

You will go back in 20 years and look at today and ask yourself how could we possibly have gotten by advertising and selling this crap to children. Unlike the Cammel ads of the 1930s, at least cigarettes were not specifically targeted at youth.

The fight has started, some places (including where I live) now require you to exhibit calorie counts on food served and to keep updated and truthful nutritional information on meals on site. The war on food size and more importantly to sugar (the food industry's primary weapon of choice to kill us) is quite as necessary and should have come a lot more sooner than this.
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Re: American members

Postby pyrasur » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:44 pm

tflags wrote:you simply can't expect an 11 year old minority kid from the 'hoods to know that a 20 oz that came in his .99 combo bought in a place closer to happiness as he will probably ever get is three sizes too big for what he should really be eating.


I see your point about youths and the impoverished generally being ignorant, and I hope the 'minority' was an added rhetorical flourish. But that is generally the mindset I am deeply opposed to. "Oh because Blacks are poor they don't know better so we should do this for them" is not the type of mentality that helps people, it's the mentality that leads to dependency and keeping people down. Europeans can snicker arrogantly and ask us to up our medication when we call it socialism, and sure we don't live in total socialism but it is a socialistic mindset that slowly creeps in to say "11 year olds can't be trusted to make decisions so we will make this decision for everybody". After that it becomes "we were trusted to make these decisions for 11 year olds but those 12 year olds are also in danger of this, seniors are senile, those adults are crappy parents they must do it like this".

This system has allowed the parents of your "11 year old minority kid from the 'hoods'" to absolve themselves of responsibility for their kid. But instead they are no longer responsible for paying for his healthcare, and like beggars must depend on society's good charity to pay. And the one who pays always becomes the owner and makes the rules.
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Re: American members

Postby tflags » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:57 pm

Dude, 1 in every four kids in the US are overweight. Studies show many different causes for this but the source is only one: sugar intake. Funny enough, there are no maximums on daily percentages on food labels in the US or around the world thanks to some strong arm negotiations by the US in the UN.

Like I said, you can continue your discussion on politics, which I really don't care about. In the meantime I hope someone stops people from selling 20 oz soda cans to children with Donald McDonald's on the label in a school cafeteria run by Coca Cola.

People's right to choose? More like people's right not to be assaulted by all the marketing created by the billion dollar conglomerate at the rate of "for 10 cents I'll double your can size."
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Re: American members

Postby pyrasur » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:15 pm

This is a topic I don't really give a damn about. Honestly you are right since i am one of the select few who has the power to resist marketing and also realized the well-kept secret to staying healthy I don't understand why I haven't seized the reigns of power myself.


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Re: American members

Postby #12 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:54 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:I, unlike you, live under a regime which is as close to communism as it gets outside N. Korea and Cuba


Sounds like China... :P

Just a quick remark by me: I love sugar, I'm probably not super healthy, but I'm not "fat" or anything either... I think you can have your occasional sweets if you work out... And if you work out more, you can have more sweets... And so on... Marketing yes - but people are still responsible for themselves, aren't they?! ;)
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Re: American members

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:02 pm

Subliminal messages... Marketers have been using this tactic for decades...and it works...
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Re: American members

Postby pyrasur » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:43 pm

Goddamn mind control is what it is I tell you. Aluminum repels it. :P
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Re: American members

Postby DerKaiser » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:52 am

The problem with uncontrolled capitalism is that we tend to think of it as an etheral mystical being without perceiving the men behind it.
Unregulated capitalism or monopolistic capitalism is the trend happening. Unfortunately the men behind it the ones in real power, which is not neccessarily the government, are a bit live for today in their nature.
Your fear of government should be directed at the multi national corporations which are slowly destroying society and the world around us.
It is up to a government to stop the rampaging of the exponential growth of wealth of only a few and their utter complete disregard for life and nature
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