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[2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:01 am

Jorge wrote:Germany could struggle versus Sweden, I give you that although it can certainly run over them as well. But Germany will wipe the floor with Mexico and should beat South Korea easily as well.

I agree, and especially Mexico are nowhere near as good as they were a few years ago. BUT: they're not the easiest team in pot 2, and they can show up. South Korea are probably one of the best in pot 4. And Sweden, no comment needed. They're not traditionally good and maybe inexperience will affect them but they eliminated Italy and were close to finishing above France. I think they're very dangerous.
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Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby FCB12Forever » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:51 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:South Korea are probably one of the best in pot 4.


IMO Germany should really really keep an eye out for Korea. In Asia there are basically just Korea, Japan, Australia, Iran, and some other team, this time Saudi Arabia. The big 4 are almost always guaranteed world cup spots, while the rest of Asia compete for the 0.5 left over berch.

In these teams, Japan learned their whole football system from Brazil. They are technically great, they can surely take chances to beat European teams who has serious problems or has no significant strong points. However they have no chance against teams who have incredibly strong players, or no significant weakness. Facing Colombia (again), and Poland with the best CF itw, they stand no chance.

Australia are just meh. They are physically strong, but are easily beaten by... almost anyone who's merely OK in the football world.

Korea and Iran, IMO, can cause a lot of trouble to the best teams in the world. They are the typical "If I am going down I am taking you with me" type. If they are determined to defend, they could be hard to breakdown. But if they have to win to advance, they might breakdown, like the helpless Iran against Bosnia in '14.
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Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby Jorge » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:41 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:And Sweden, no comment needed. They're not traditionally good and maybe inexperience will affect them but they eliminated Italy and were close to finishing above France. I think they're very dangerous.


Also do not forget that Sweden left The Netherlands out in that same Group. I am convinced that Mexico will struggle big time to score against them and Mexico's weak backline will suffer with Sweden's physicality.
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Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:00 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:The two 2014 finalists have the worst groups

:?:


What's confusing? :P
I am not seeing this as difficult group... it is tricky but not difficult
Sounds strange yes I know

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Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:57 am

ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:[quote="FCBayernMunchen"]The two 2014 finalists have the worst groups

:?:


What's confusing? :P
I am not seeing this as difficult group... it is tricky but not difficult
Sounds strange yes I know

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Depends on what you mean by difficult. I'm sure Germany will go through and probably even win the group but other big teams have it easier. For example, granted, you can't predict a winner between Spain and Portugal, but the chance that they won't both qualify is small
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Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby RB624 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:16 pm

You know which teams worry about which group they're in? Losers. England for example. They talk about their chances of going deep into the tournament, maybe even winning it, and then they breathe a sigh of relief when they get an easy group.

The Germans probably prefer not to have to face Brazil until as late as possible, but other than that, I don't think they're too worried about anything. They'll take everyone seriously, but they're not losing any sleep over any of this.
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Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby America USA » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:20 am

RB624 wrote:You know which teams worry about which group they're in? Losers. England for example. They talk about their chances of going deep into the tournament, maybe even winning it, and then they breathe a sigh of relief when they get an easy group.

The Germans probably prefer not to have to face Brazil until as late as possible, but other than that, I don't think they're too worried about anything. They'll take everyone seriously, but they're not losing any sleep over any of this.


I used to think like you until recently. Real Madrid in CL 2016, Portugal in 2016 Euro and Arsenal in 2017 FA Cup changed my mind.

You can let all the other tough teams play each other, collect cards/suspensions and injuries, get mentally and physically exhausted and even endure 120 minutes of football if need be and then take on whatever is left of the opponent.

It's pretty cliche to say that “to be the best you gotta beat the best” but it doesn’t always work that way. Often times the team that gets the hard draws ends up being totally drained come the semifinal/final and the opponent who has had easier draws can take advantage.

Real Madrid in 2016 didn’t face a single tough opponent until the final and they won. (Conversely, Atletico had to beat Bayern and Barcelona to book their place in the final and they lost).
In the 2016 Euro, Germany were coming off a win against Italy after 120 minutes of football and France were coming off whooping Iceland. Guess which team won? Not the one who had to face tough opponents in the previous round. (Conversely, the winners, Portugal did not play any real strong team until the final and they played against a French team who had just eliminated Germany).
Arsenal in the FA Cup did not draw a decent opponent until the semifinal and they were fresher than their opponents and won.

Also, it’s fallacious to label people who want kinder draws “losers,” because I for one want to postpone strong opponents until the latter KO stages, not avoid them altogether. Once you’ve reached the semifinals then this easy opponent wish goes out the window because at that stage there is no such thing as an “easy” team.
Last edited by America USA on Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2017-12-01] Germany vs ??? — World Cup draw

Postby RB624 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:01 am

^^ Facing the toughest opponents later is better, but that's only true in the knock-out rounds, not group play. Let's take Spain for instance, since they were a Pot 2 team.

It depends on who Germany would play instead, but you can assume that Germany would want to play Spain as late as possible. But let's say Germany's group was next to Poland's or Russia's group, instead of Brazil's. In that case, having Spain in their group would be a good thing. It would mean they wouldn't have to face them in a knock-out match until the final.

But Germany's group is actually next to Brazil's. So in this case, it is the opposite scenario. In this case, Spain are probably the only team Germany was genuinely hoping to avoid. Spain are the only Pot 2 or lower team that could reasonably be expected to challenge Germany.

Some of your points are still valid for group play. Germany could've ended up in a group which would've taken a lot more out of them than the group they're in now. Trade Croatia for Sweden and Uruguay for S. Korea, and the first round would be a war instead of a battle. That can definitely take its toll on a team for the rest of the tournament.

My qualm was more with fans who genuinely fear getting knocked out at the group stage. If you're Peru or Tunisia, that's fine. If you're England, and you're desperately hoping to reach a semi for only their 3rd time (1st since 1990), then you should be more worried about who's in the group next to you than who's in the group with you.
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