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[2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:45 pm

Germany will win
10
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Sweden will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 10

Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby BMpenang » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:08 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Kahn madre great points. I totally agree with him



I agree 100% with him too.




"At 4-2 at the least, focus should have been on securing the result, stabilising the defence. It appears to me that this team cannot react appropriately to extreme situations – a plan B is missing.
"On the pitch there is little communication, little atmosphere. After conceding at 4-2 against Sweden, one had the impression that collective fear and paralysis was spreading [among the team].
"The German defensive line is showing weaknesses if put under pressure, as demonstrated by Austria as well," he continued.

"His [Low's] task should be to not only refine the team tactically, but to also give them mental stability.

"I didn't attack anyone [after the game], I criticised objectively. It's clearly apparent now that the team concedes too many goals."


Everything he said here point to a lack of leadership on and off the pitch.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Commodore » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:20 pm

I never said that criticizing the players or the coach is wrong. I didn't like the hateful comments, of which yours was none, I merely disagree with your point.

Beckenbauer was a sweeper/libero, which, back then, was as equivalent to today's pivot as it gets. Matthäus played between CAM and libero as well during his career, but to be honest, all that is beside the point.

You may hold the belief that a GREAT LEADER is needed in a squad to be successful. I am of a different opinion, but even THAT is beside the point.

The point is: There is no player right now who is Nationalmannschafts-Material football-ability-wise (which should ALWAYS come first) who also has the kind of GREAT LEADER qualities that, according to your school of thought, are needed to make a team successful.

We can now beat around the bush about that topic into all eternity, or until one such GREAT LEADER emerges from the depths of our youth program. We can give in to the notion that unfortunately, because we have no GREAT LEADER, we won't win anything until we have one.

Or...

We can try and find a way to win with the players we have!

Did this 4:4 suck? Boy, it sucked. It sucked like not a whole lot of other Germany games I have watched in my life, but what was it exactly that sucked? That's the important question.

What sucked, first and foremost, was that our coach (who should be the GREAT LEADER to begin with) was unwilling or unable to draw conclusions from the changing game-flow and make the proper adjustments.
What sucked was that our defense started panicking once Sweden came back into the game after the 2:4.
What sucked was that Löw didn't recognize that, and (again) didn't adjust properly.

But no matter how disappointed we all were about the result, believe it or not, there were things that did not suck in this game. Everyone always says it:

"That was one of the most brilliant performances I have ever seen, and then it all went to shit."

Well this "Brilliant Performance" is still in us. It hasn't magically disappeared. Performances like that make us one of the scariest teams in the world right now and if we keep this squad together in its core, then I am VERY VERY much optimistic for the World Cup in 2014.

Nothing we have seen is un-fixable.

Thinking we're in desperate need of a GREAT LEADER, but simply not having one. That is un-fixable.

I suggest we concentrate on the stuff we can fix.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby walter » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:33 pm

What sucked, first and foremost, was that our coach (who should be the GREAT LEADER™ to begin with) was unwilling or unable to draw conclusions from the changing game-flow and make the proper adjustments.


Sweden put two defenders on our wingers everytime they had the ball and also started pressing our CM higher on the field, that was how they readjusted. How come none of the changes that Loew did made sense in the context of what was happening? that's the biggest question I have.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby BMpenang » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:33 pm

It will go on and on as you said commodore but lets hope they fix what can be fixed.
In truth i also don't see any great leader in the pitch except for schweini who might turn out to be a different player with the arm band on but that is also just a speculation.
I did not call for loew's sacking but his loyalty to some players and no plan b,c,d like what kahn said is becoming more comical.
I believe there is one coach who could change the team mentality completely but he is not available so it doesn't matter for now.
I don't know how many wake up call is needed for our team but hope this total destruction would be the final lesson.
cheers
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:29 pm

Germany probably don't need that big leader but I think the players are mentally weak and they lack personality and aggresivity

You just have to watch Schweini face when he was booked almost at the end of the game. He was totally scared like the other players. I'd like to see in him some leadership like Ballack, De Rossi, Gerrard, Lampard or Xabi Alonso just to name a few.

Germany has one of the best German squads ever and they are getting the same and even worse results than in 2002 or 2008 when the team was light years away in terms of quality but they had real men and personality on the field.

This German team reminds me of Spain before winning Euro 2008
. Spain always had great squads but they always managed to lose. Sometimes it was the referee (Korea 2002) sometimes it was Julio Salinas missing a 1 on 1 with Pagliuca against Italy, sometimes Zubizarreta scored own goals, sometimes they lost in penalty shootouts against England or Raul missed a crucial penalty kick in the final minutes... but now that has changed and they have the winning gen / mentality. They can win tournaments even if they are not playing great football. And you look at their players and they are full of confidence and you can feel that. That was something missing a few years ago
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby AvatarX » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:09 am

YlonenXabi wrote:This German team reminds me of Spain before winning Euro 2008. Spain always had great squads but they always managed to lose. Sometimes it was the referee (Korea 2002) sometimes it was Julio Salinas missing a 1 on 1 with Pagliuca against Italy, sometimes Zubizarreta scored own goals, sometimes they lost in penalty shootouts against England or Raul missed a crucial penalty kick in the final minutes... but now that has changed and they have the winning gen / mentality. They can win tournaments even if they are not playing great football. And you look at their players and they are full of confidence and you can feel that. That was something missing a few years ago


This is a great example. I remember talking to friends a decade ago saying that although Spain had great players, they were "losers". Well, they have really changed that label ...
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby tflags » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:13 pm

"Freak game, Germany is well on its way to Brazil." Couldn't agree more; though subbing two forward midfielders with, mmmm, two other attacking midfielders while leading by 3 goals and already conceding one was, mmm, idiotic? Loew has every right to be criticized for that. There was so much contention up front, DM was practically halved at best. Subs should have brought more support there IMHO.

Great header assist from Mueller. :P
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Commodore » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:19 pm

We need to nurture the Bender twins into two CM/DM beasts. These positions are the positions in which games are won and especially lost in modern football. We do have two world class guys for these spots in Schweinsteiger and Khedira, but once one of them is out, we've always looked shaky.

We need equivalent replacement in these pivotal (pun intended) positions.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby tflags » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:46 pm

Commodore wrote:We need to nurture the Bender twins into two CM/DM beasts.


:P Here, I fixed it for y'a:

We need to torture the Bender twins into two CM/DM beasts.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Element » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:35 pm

We needed some of this (Damn , it is only a picture but it scared me to death)
Image

Commodore wrote:We need to nurture the Bender twins into two CM/DM beasts. These positions are the positions in which games are won and especially lost in modern football. We do have two world class guys for these spots in Schweinsteiger and Khedira, but once one of them is out, we've always looked shaky.

according to bild (not 100%sure if it was bild) Schweinsteiger said after the game " HAD WE HAD ONE BENDER IN -referring to the Bender Twins- this would not have happened"
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