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[2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:45 pm

Germany will win
1
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Georgia will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 1

Re: [2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:17 pm

Attack is not a real concern for Germany. Even in this match they created lots of chances and that's what matters. Players like Reus not putting the goals in is an anomaly (poor form) not a reflection of their true capabilities.
Reus-Müller-Götze can out score any attack in Europe. The problem is sticking Özil (who can't shoot) in there. That and the midfield which needs an anchor IE Schweini/Khedira/Kramer + the two advanced midfielders (Gündogan and Kroos or Özil). Fullbacks are indeed a problem, but we've got to see how Ginter and Hector progress this season. Another option is to stick Badstuber (Höwedes) + Boateng on the flanks and put Mustafi in the center, but I don't know about that and Löw is running out of time to experiment.

Schürrle should be cast off the starting lineups at least until he improves with VfL.
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Re: [2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Postby prasun77 » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:34 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Attack is not a real concern for Germany. Even in this match they created lots of chances and that's what matters. Players like Reus not putting the goals in is an anomaly (poor form) not a reflection of their true capabilities.
Reus-Müller-Götze can out score any attack in Europe. The problem is sticking Özil (who can't shoot) in there. That and the midfield which needs an anchor IE Schweini/Khedira/Kramer + the two advanced midfielders (Gündogan and Kroos or Özil). Fullbacks are indeed a problem, but we've got to see how Ginter and Hector progress this season. Another option is to stick Badstuber (Höwedes) + Boateng on the flanks and put Mustafi in the center, but I don't know about that and Löw is running out of time to experiment.

Schürrle should be cast off the starting lineups at least until he improves with VfL.

Hmmm..
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Re: [2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Postby Jorge » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:44 pm

I am not sure that I am following through.

Excluding Lahm, the last time in history that I remember Germany having world class fullbacks was in the late 80's with Andreas Brehme on the left and Thomas Berthold and Stefan Reuter on the right, and the only reason I consider them fullbacks is because they played like that for their Italian clubs where a flat 4 was the norm because the national team played with a libero (Augenthaler) and 2 stoppers (Kohler and Buchwald) which forced the wide players on the back up the field, so technically they were winger-backs.

This was followed by the years in which Lothar Matthäus moved back to sweep as the last man and from there on Germany did not have any world class name in the category in question. In the Joachim Löw era (the last 9 years) several fullbacks by trade were tried like Schmelzer, Beck or Riether and at the end Germany played with a converted fullback on Lahm’s opposite side at every major tournament (Jansen, Badstuber, Boateng, Howedes, Mustafi).

Of course, if all of the sudden Germany produces the next Cafu-Maldini JLow will be happy to use them, but if not he will make tactical changes to balance the back. Obviously, the search for reliable fullbacks by trade will continue but the team will be just fine like it has been in recent years. Just keep in mind that in Brazil 2014 Lahm was barely used as a fullback.

Going back to the lack of a center forward subject after Klose retirement I can easily make a parallel between all titles that Germany won in modern history and the presence of at least one world class center forward (box striker) in the squad and how these specific players were a more outstanding factor than any pair of fullbacks:
1972: Gerd Muller
1974: Gerd Muller
1980: Karl-Heinz Rummenigge (*)
1990: Jurgen Klinsmann and Rudi Voeller
1996: Oliver Bierhoff
2014: Miroslav Klose (*)

(*) I can concede that in 1980 a young Rummenigge having Allofs and Hrubesch in the line-up played more like a number 10 but he later became a box striker and was doing so for long stretches of the game already and that Klose was not a defining factor last summer but it is also true that Germany lost presence in the box when he was not on the field and the rest of the attacking force struggled in most games to convert like it is happening now which is the main reason why we are even debating the subject.
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Re: [2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:15 pm

I'm not talking about having world class wingbacks.

I'm talking about having PROPER left and right backs instead of trying every other single player in that position. When you see that Höwedes, Ginter, Mustafi, Emre Can, Lars Bender or Rudy among others have been playing in that position in the last 2 years then you can realize that there's something wrong there.

I'm not saying that this is the biggest issue for the NT, but defense is. And poor fullbacks + no real CDM is probably the cause of it.
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Re: [2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:18 pm

What about Mario Gomez and the 2012 fiasco?
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Re: [2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Postby zozon » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Poor fullbacks like poor Boateng and Hummels? :roll:
pyrasur wrote:
It's shaped like a sword. Because that's how formations work. We will only be beaten if Atletico form a rock. We will beat them if they form paper tho.
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Re: [2015-10-11] Germany vs Georgia

Postby Jorge » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:37 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:What about Mario Gomez and the 2012 fiasco?


Again I am struggling to follow through: I never said that every time Germany had a box striker it brought success. I said the opposite: that when Germany won titles it had a world class striker by trade in the line-up and it did not necessarily had world class (or above average) fullbacks.

I do not understand what the 2012 SF loss to Italy has to do with this discussion, there are many examples like that.
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