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[2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:30 pm

Germany will win
6
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Cameroon will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 6

Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby envagyokazapad » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:39 pm

Over all it's not too bad, and a good game to draw conclusions from.

The idea was probably to play incisive passes behind a rather high line of defense. The reason it didn't really work was Kroos, he needed to do too much defensively and drop too deep, generally he was marked out by 2-3 opponents. He got little support from Khedira. Hard to judge Kramer based on this.

- Khedira sucks period. He needs to be dropped. I don't know how good Kramer is but I don't think it can get worse.
- As long as there is no support defensively from the midfielders the team will concede goals, like they did today. Players not willing to defend in these positions (Özil, Schürrle) need to be dropped. No matter how good the team might be upfront Bayern have already shown that it all doesn't work as long as the team don't defend collectively.
- Götze won't work as a false 9. Perhaps Reus should play CF if Löw really doesn't want to play Klose.
- Reus did fine defensively, compared to how much he used to do.

After today I'd prefer to play this



I think this team would work fine with tactics similar to what Löw tried to play today.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby Element » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:46 pm

Neuer-Grosskreutz,CB,CB,Durm-Lahm,Kroos-Müller,Götze,Reus-Klose

regarding CBs all our now equal IMO
Mertesacker is mertesacker
Boateng is a walking heart attack
Hummels always sucks with the NT
Ginter amd Mustafi are solid but inexperienced
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby MatZam » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:47 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
MatZam wrote:I can only hope that that tame display was entirely to avoid the risk of injuries.

Does anyone else find it weird that we are the only major European nation that played against another nation also in the World Cup? Spain, Italy (and France and England, if you consider the major) didn't.


Portugal played Greece and Nederlands are playing Ghana next Wed


Ooops, yeah...
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby Tedesco » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:53 pm

Müller MOTM. Özil should be dropped from the WC.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby Mia san Bayern » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:01 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:After today I'd prefer to play this

Klose
Reus   Götze   Müller
Kroos Lahm
Höwedes Hummels Merte Boateng
Neuer


I think this team would work fine with tactics similar to what Löw tried to play today.


I agree with most of the line-up that you put up but there are some players which would need to change IMO.

- First of all I don't see the Hummels-Merte duo work. As we saw today they have misunderstandings when they play together and I think it would be better if we rather had a Hummels-Boateng duo or a Boateng-Merte duo.
- As much as I hate to say this I think thas Grosskreutz should start as a RB. Boateng has shown that he's offensively good as a RB but has shown that he has been a liability in that position.
- I'm not sure on the LB position to be honest. Durm hasn't impressed me tonight but we haven't seen enough of Howedes to see if he's good enough to play in that position. Too bad that Jansen hasn't made it to the World Cup because he impressed me when he played for Germany these past few months.
- Finally I'm not sure if Klose is fit enough to hit top form at the World Cup. If he was fit enough there would be no doubt that he would start but I think that Low started Gotze as a false number 9 with a reason. I think that neither Klose or Khedira will get much playing time during the World Cup because of their match fitness. Look at Gotze during the Euro 2012. Didn't play for half a season and still was nominated to the Euro's and in the end he only played 10 minutes in the tournament.

All in all it's quite ironic that Germany was actually weak on it's strongest position (in midfield) today. They were supposed to have one of the best midfields in the world but yet they can't even outperform some minnows midfield. They must start to play every game with more passion or else they'll end up like Bayern did this season. This is why it's actually important to play well in friendlies close to a tournament because you need good form to head towards the World Cup.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby envagyokazapad » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:20 pm

KG wouldn't have done any better today than Boateng...he was constantly singled out because he had no support at all from the midfield. Additionally he moved up a lot to help attacks especially when Germany fell behind. I'd always choose Boateng for RB there over KG.

I'd prefer to play Hummels-Boateng, but I think Lahm is needed in the midfield more right now, so the next best option should be played as a right back which is Boateng, which kind of means Merte needs to be played.

If Klose is not fit it's a different story of course. Then it should probably be Schürrle playing. I don't think he does enough defensively to deserve a spot on the wings, which is why I think Müller should definitely play there. Not that he has much of a position anyway :P

There are still plenty of options, I see the main issue being the attackers not willing to defend at all. Müller played as SS and CF most of the game which is why Boateng was left alone all game at the back, with Özil, Khedira and later Schürrle nowhere to be found also. Durm had an easier time with Kroos and Reus helping out.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby Mia san Bayern » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:36 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:KG wouldn't have done any better today than Boateng...he was constantly singled out because he had no support at all from the midfield. Additionally he moved up a lot to help attacks especially when Germany fell behind. I'd always choose Boateng for RB there over KG.

Well actually KG has proven to be solid there when he played for Dortmund there and at times I thought today that Boateng was in a position where he shouldn't have been. And it isn't the first time that Boateng has looked unstable defensively as a RB (Italy 2012 comes to mind). This is why I think KG should play there instead of him. No question about Lahm, we desperately need him at midfield.

envagyokazapad wrote:I see the main issue being the attackers not willing to defend at all.

Definetely. I think why they've done that is because they don't want to get tired and risk any injuries before the WC but that doesn't excuse the midfield for not helping to defend today.

Cameroon were physically strong today and fought for every ball unlike Germany who just tried to not risk any injuries today which is why I think this match ended in a draw. If Germany wanted to win, it seems that only Muller wanted to win today tough, then they would have tried to score a third goal but they didn't try.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby theundead » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:57 pm

Another problem was the disorganized pressing by Germany. I noticed multiple times that more than 2 midfielders pressed a single player and the opponent player slipped the ball through them directly or through a short back pass and boom Cameroon were on the counter. And at times there was no pressing at all.
The personnel are not bad, the tactics are. The front four should be more fluid considering Muller, Goetze and Rues can play in each others' places but Boateng was being single out on the right hand side and was playing like a pseudo winger at times even.
Ozil was no where to be found. Goetze loses too many balls upfront. We need a fighter in the defensive midfield like Javi Martinez. Lets see if Schweini or Lahm can gain their fitness and form.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby Kalev » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:00 pm

- I think Durm was solid. None of goals was his fault. He don't have to shine in his first national team game. He just needs some more time.
- Özil was a dissapointment. He has been poor over the whole season in Arsenal so this is not a surprise and I think he is not gonna find a new breathing. 2010 WC Özil would have definently scored in 3th minute. I'd like to see on Friday game without Özil.
- Müller was Müller. He just plays for the team. Makes good runs, finds some space and has a good goal instinct.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby MatZam » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:34 am

So, Klose anyone?
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:37 am

Kalev wrote:- I think Durm was solid. None of goals was his fault. He don't have to shine in his first national team game. He just needs some more time.
- Özil was a dissapointment. He has been poor over the whole season in Arsenal so this is not a surprise and I think he is not gonna find a new breathing. 2010 WC Özil would have definently scored in 3th minute. I'd like to see on Friday game without Özil.
- Müller was Müller. He just plays for the team. Makes good runs, finds some space and has a good goal instinct.


Whom are Germany playing next Fri?
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby MatZam » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:52 am

ramsej84 wrote:
Kalev wrote:- I think Durm was solid. None of goals was his fault. He don't have to shine in his first national team game. He just needs some more time.
- Özil was a dissapointment. He has been poor over the whole season in Arsenal so this is not a surprise and I think he is not gonna find a new breathing. 2010 WC Özil would have definently scored in 3th minute. I'd like to see on Friday game without Özil.
- Müller was Müller. He just plays for the team. Makes good runs, finds some space and has a good goal instinct.


Whom are Germany playing next Fri?


Armenia... even Malta managed to beat them.
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Re: [2014-06-01] Germany vs Cameroon

Postby envagyokazapad » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:12 pm

Mia san Bayern wrote:
envagyokazapad wrote:KG wouldn't have done any better today than Boateng...he was constantly singled out because he had no support at all from the midfield. Additionally he moved up a lot to help attacks especially when Germany fell behind. I'd always choose Boateng for RB there over KG.

Well actually KG has proven to be solid there when he played for Dortmund there and at times I thought today that Boateng was in a position where he shouldn't have been. And it isn't the first time that Boateng has looked unstable defensively as a RB (Italy 2012 comes to mind). This is why I think KG should play there instead of him. No question about Lahm, we desperately need him at midfield.

envagyokazapad wrote:I see the main issue being the attackers not willing to defend at all.

Definetely. I think why they've done that is because they don't want to get tired and risk any injuries before the WC but that doesn't excuse the midfield for not helping to defend today.

Cameroon were physically strong today and fought for every ball unlike Germany who just tried to not risk any injuries today which is why I think this match ended in a draw. If Germany wanted to win, it seems that only Muller wanted to win today tough, then they would have tried to score a third goal but they didn't try.


That's kind of the key though...Boateng wasn't really the problem.

I actually took some time to take still of the moments right before the 2nd goal
Image
Image

It's hard to really blame it on Boateng's positioning when you have another opponent completely unmarked. At that point it doesn't matter which way he moves since he'll leave one man free with a lot of space either way (perhaps he still should have closed in on Choupo trying to leave the other player offside). You can't see it on these pics but Kramer at that point was well a few steps behind Choupo Moting as well (just closing in - so it really was crappy for Boateng). I think when this happens it doesn't really matter who you play. Boateng just brings more quality to the team than KG in my opinion.

Though it is a question which is better...Hummels-Boa-KG or Hummels-Merte-Boa. Boa is better than both of them so I think he definitely needs to play somewhere.
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