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[2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:00 pm

Germany will win inside 90 minutes
21
88%
Germany will win after extra time
2
8%
Germany will win on penalties
0
No votes
Argentina will win on penalties
0
No votes
Argentina will win after extra time
0
No votes
Argentina will win inside 90 minutes
1
4%
 
Total votes : 24

Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby Dgro » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:43 am

I think Messi got the award because it would be hard to give it to any one German player. Like, it's impossible to say who our best player was. People point to Muller:

Hat trick against a 10-man Portugal team that, in hindsight, was clearly terrible
Game winning goal against USA
First goal vs Brazil
Assists vs Ghana, Algeria, and Brazil (one each)

In my opinion that does not make him Germany's clear-cut MVP. He was the hero of the group stage but then faded significantly thereafter. He was one of our best players but you could make equally compelling arguments for Lahm, Hummels, and even Andre Schurrle for his contributions during the knockout stages... you could even throw Schweinsteiger and Kroos in there... Oh, and Neuer of course (IMO he should've won the Golden Ball but he wasn't even a finalist!)

Obviously they did settle on Muller as Germany's top player since he won the Silver, but that doesn't change my point. If we did have one clear candidate ahead of all the others then it would have been much easier to select that player and just not give the award to Messi.

I don't want to give the illusion that I care about this much at all, though. Like someone else said, **** it, we're champions 8)
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby Jorge » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:02 am

If numbers tell a story here is an interesting stat: Manuel Neuer posted better passing numbers than Leo Messi in the World Cup.

Manuel Neuer
Passes: 297
Completed: 244
Effectiveness: 82%
Leo Messi
Passes: 442
Completed: 356
Effectiveness: 68%
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby walter » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:13 am

I will say, I have regained some of the lost love for Loew (lost mostly during the EUROs), after all, it takes a good coach to win a World Cup. However, like some of you have already pointed out here, it seems he got lucky with the injury to Mustafi because otherwise I doubt he would've moved Lahm to RB, and when he did, that's when Germany really started playing like champions.
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby DerKaiser » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:43 am

Image




Translated: Here you see the best goalie and the best field player of this world cup, and to his right is Messi.
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby Dgro » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:21 am

That is such an awkward picture. Messi looks ashamed (understandable) and Neuer looks like he hates the guy (confusing but I'm ok with it)
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby armbrust » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:46 am

Guys, this was the reward of something seriously planned.

Since the lost against croacia, DFB took planification to a never seen level, they started in the seeds, and after some years we saw all these WC players emerging from nowhere, never we had so many stars together.

Also the logistic for this WC was amazing, Campo Bahia proyect was just perfect.

Low doesnt was the master brain behind the players , DFB planification was.
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:37 am

walter wrote:I will say, I have regained some of the lost love for Loew (lost mostly during the EUROs), after all, it takes a good coach to win a World Cup. However, like some of you have already pointed out here, it seems he got lucky with the injury to Mustafi because otherwise I doubt he would've moved Lahm to RB, and when he did, that's when Germany really started playing like champions.

I compare Mustafi's inj as to Kross' vs Juve.Robben came in and we all fondly remember the outcome:grin:

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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby scaPEPgoat » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:40 am

pyrasur wrote:
Badger wrote:I really don't want to dilute Loew's praise, because he has been far better than critics give him credit for, but I have my doubts whether he'd have moved Lahm back to right back if circumstances hadn't more or less forced him to do it.


Lol I wouldn't have done it if I were Loew. Knowing what I did, I would have thrown on Grosskreutz at RB rather than gamble on Schweinsteiger AND Khedira maintaining fitness, so fair play to Loew proving me wrong. In the end I don't think it matters that circumstances forced him into it a little. He had other options than what he did, but he remained flexible and completely changed things up. Too much credit sometimes for leaders who get things right the first time, rather than leaders who are capable of changing their own hardened notions of what's right. Bill Gates didn't invent Microsoft, he saw something great, practically stole it, and ran with it.

It has to be said too that Loew stuck with many of his ideas, sticking with Hoewedes, Oezil and a 36 year old Klose.


So your assessment of Loew is that he "remained flexible and completely changed things up" and that he "stuck with many of his ideas" Kind of contradictory.
Is using Klose really one of "his ideas". The guy is greatest world cup player ever (until Muller dethrones him anyways) and the only striker on the squad. This was hardly a revolutionary idea to use him. And I never saw a point in the tournament when sticking with Ozil helped us in any way. In fact, it was the alternatives to Oezil who teamed up to score the most important goal that many of you people have seen in your entire lives!
Loew has since the wc stated that Goetze has proven he is better than Messi. Is he trying to sound stupid by saying he has best player in the world and decided to hardly use him? Or trying to sound stupid by making an obviously untrue statement? Anyhow, Loew is a strange man but let bygones be bygones we kings of the world!
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby scaPEPgoat » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:45 am

Dgro wrote:That is such an awkward picture. Messi looks ashamed (understandable) and Neuer looks like he hates the guy (confusing but I'm ok with it)


Looks to me like Neuer is staring him down like a true competitor. Like he is saying "oh, you are the best player in WC? BS but let the baby have his bottle. We are Champions of the world" or "you tried to come between me and my dream but you couldn't do it, little man"
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby DerKaiser » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:20 am

scaPEPgoat wrote:
Dgro wrote:That is such an awkward picture. Messi looks ashamed (understandable) and Neuer looks like he hates the guy (confusing but I'm ok with it)


Looks to me like Neuer is staring him down like a true competitor. Like he is saying "oh, you are the best player in WC? BS but let the baby have his bottle. We are Champions of the world" or "you tried to come between me and my dream but you couldn't do it, little man"



You maybe reaching a way bit far there
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby Tedesco » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:36 am

Neuer looks like he is about to say: "Hey sport, wanna get a happy meal and play some baseball?"
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:43 am

I think it is more like a compassion look :mrgreen:
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby MUTU » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:56 am

Germany’s Christoph Kramer ‘can’t remember World Cup final’ after concussion against Argentina [source]
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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby sterndessudens » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:46 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 7XViHsmBOs

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Re: [2014-07-13] Germany vs Argentina

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:17 pm

Dgro wrote:I think Messi got the award because it would be hard to give it to any one German player. Like, it's impossible to say who our best player was. People point to Muller:

Beside the point though. The award should have gone to Robben.

I've finally read through all the posts here. I have one revelation to make. Although extremely doubtful prior to the tournament, after the first game I was convinced that Germany would win this cup. The conviction came from a post ramsej had posted about something a friend had said (and I later heard it from another friend of mine). They said that England will win the world cup because 2014 has been parallel to 1966 in football. History does tend to repeat itself in football. The footballing universe always offers a chance to make things right. My theory went that since in 1966, England won by a non-existent goal, then this Cup, which is the first in history to use goalline technology, had to be won by the rightful winner of 1966; Germany. The moment I found out that Brazil and Italy, like Germany now, had won their fourth titles 24 years after their third, I became even more so convinced. Superstitious I know, but you can't say I was wrong.

Throughout the final I was very nervous and afraid. At half-time I thought we would lose. But once the game went to extra time I was sure we would win and we would win before penalties. Germany have played in WC finals in '74, '82, '86, '90, and '02, yet not one of them went to extra time. Not since 1966. ;)

A huge well done to all the players. I have yet to come across anyone saying that Germany aren't deserved champions. Maybe you could have made a case for Argentina on Sunday, but looking at the whole tournament Germany were far ahead of anyone else.
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