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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:29 pm

scaPEPgoat wrote:Now if Holtby ever played for England (and they are so bad maybe he will one day) it would be a different case.

I understand what you mean but, going off at a tangent I'd like to point out that this was a bad example. Under current FIFA regulations, Holtby can only play for Germany since he's already played in a competitive match for Germany. Furthermore, him playing for England would have been different anyway given that Holtby's dad is an Englishman hailing from Liverpool.

scaPEPgoat wrote:"If you're born Chinese, well, you have to play for China.

I agree, but sometimes it isn't well defined. Do you go by where your ancestors lived, where you were born, where you spent most of your life?

Let's take Alaba: his dad was Nigerian, his mother from the Philippines but he was born in Austria. He was probably still getting belated 16th birthday wishes by the time he moved to Bayern in Germany.

There's so many "ifs" that people abuse of the system to represent the country that best suits them rather than the one they should represent. Take Hamit Altintop... born in Germany, learned all of his football in Germany, and then played for Turkey because his parents used to live there.

In my opinion, it should be clear cut so that nobody can abuse the system: I propose that a player can only play for the country in which he has spent the most time living in for the last 30 years of his life. This would mean that if a 10 year old goes to live in a different country, by the time he's 20 years old he can only play for the new country. Once you've played for that country, you keep on playing for that country so we don't see Drogba suddenly play for England.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby scaPEPgoat » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:24 pm

MUTU wrote:
scaPEPgoat wrote:Now if Holtby ever played for England (and they are so bad maybe he will one day) it would be a different case.

I understand what you mean but, going off at a tangent I'd like to point out that this was a bad example. Under current FIFA regulations, Holtby can only play for Germany since he's already played in a competitive match for Germany. Furthermore, him playing for England would have been different anyway given that Holtby's dad is an Englishman hailing from Liverpool.

scaPEPgoat wrote:"If you're born Chinese, well, you have to play for China.

I agree, but sometimes it isn't well defined. Do you go by where your ancestors lived, where you were born, where you spent most of your life?

Let's take Alaba: his dad was Nigerian, his mother from the Philippines but he was born in Austria. He was probably still getting belated 16th birthday wishes by the time he moved to Bayern in Germany.

There's so many "ifs" that people abuse of the system to represent the country that best suits them rather than the one they should represent. Take Hamit Altintop... born in Germany, learned all of his football in Germany, and then played for Turkey because his parents used to live there.

In my opinion, it should be clear cut so that nobody can abuse the system: I propose that a player can only play for the country in which he has spent the most time living in for the last 30 years of his life. This would mean that if a 10 year old goes to live in a different country, by the time he's 20 years old he can only play for the new country. Once you've played for that country, you keep on playing for that country so we don't see Drogba suddenly play for England.


My mistake, I thought Holtby only played in friendlies for Germany but yeah the Azerbaijan game, you are right. And ya, his dad being from england is exactly why i used him as an example.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:47 pm

I'm starting to think that Bayern's domination in the Bundesliga this season, combined with their depth, will be highly beneficial to Germany's chances at World Cup 2014, due to the fact that the players are likely to be fresher due to more rotation etc.

So maybe Bayern are indeed helping Germany :)
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:51 pm

MUTU wrote:I'm starting to think that Bayern's domination in the Bundesliga this season, combined with their depth, will be highly beneficial to Germany's chances at World Cup 2014, due to the fact that the players are likely to be fresher due to more rotation etc.

So maybe Bayern are indeed helping Germany :)

Team chemistry will definitely be higher than mist national sides
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB general » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:27 pm

It's about how you feel. Is it like German or Croat? For example: Kovač brothers were born in Germany, Josip Šimunić and Anthony Šerić in Australia, Ivan Rakitić in CH, Ivo Iličević, Ivan Klasnić, brothers Tomislav and Mario Marić in Germany. They all decided to play for Croatia and it wasn't questionable how do they feel and in which atmosphere were raised through their early life.

However, Mario Gavranović (CH) and Ivica Vastić(Austria) decided to play for CH and Austria. Gavranović decided to accept an invitation of Hitzfeld and join because he probably knew there won't be a place for him in Croatia squad and mostly because the commitment to repay for country who has formed him as a player.
There are also Mark Viduka and Jason Čulina, both born Croats in Australia and they decided to play for country in which they're born.

Mark Bresciano's mother is also born Croat, but he never thought about playing for either Italy or Croatia.

It's all about how national conscious you are, with whom do you identify, what are your chances somewhere, etc. Depending from case to case. However, the last 2 examples are Croats born in Argentina, Danijel Biloš and Dario Cvitanić(Cvitanich). The first one played a friendly match under Peckerman because he didn't take a citizenship on time, but Dario possesses Croatian documents which he got on basis of his grandfather who was born in Croatia and moved to Argentina.
However, Fifa don't accept those ways of getting the right to play for some country. Really idiotic when you see how liberal they've become in case of the offical Fifa friendly matches between national sides, where they removed the rule of closing the choice after one match you played for someone or even worse... They used to block the possibility of playing for senior squad if you early played for U-21 in other national side. Valerien Ismäel couldn't play for Germany because he had 1-2 capps in France U-21 side, and today one Diego Costa can play twice for Brasil side in friendly matches and then again think about Spain.

That what I call mafia!

In Germany currently there are enough talents you can put in Elf, so every call of some foreigner can be considered as a slap to natives. :|
Last edited by FCB general on Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MatZam » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:29 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:
MUTU wrote:I'm starting to think that Bayern's domination in the Bundesliga this season, combined with their depth, will be highly beneficial to Germany's chances at World Cup 2014, due to the fact that the players are likely to be fresher due to more rotation etc.

So maybe Bayern are indeed helping Germany :)

Team chemistry will definitely be higher than mist national sides


That, and maybe the fact that the old hands like Schweinsteiger and Lahm have finally won international titles will help. More confidence, assurance and the real belief that they can do it this time. History has proved that the best national teams are not necessarily the ones that have the best players, but rather the largest amount of players in the same club (Spain - Barca, Germany 1974 - Bayern, etc.). Obviously you have to have great players, but the team with 11 good players from the same club will usually (IMO) beat a team with 11 great players that play in 11 different clubs.

For me, the best team would be:

Muller/Klose
Reus Kroos Gotze
Gundogan Schweinsteiger
Schmelzer Boateng Mertesacker Lahm
Neuer

You can switch the front four around how you like, and put Badstuber instead of Mertesacker if he is fit in time. With a line up of Muller (not Klose) and Badstuber (not Mertesacker) you would have a team composed of 8 Bayern and 3 Dortmund players, which would be great in terms of chemistry and experience :)
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:45 pm

MatZam wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:
MUTU wrote:I'm starting to think that Bayern's domination in the Bundesliga this season, combined with their depth, will be highly beneficial to Germany's chances at World Cup 2014, due to the fact that the players are likely to be fresher due to more rotation etc.

So maybe Bayern are indeed helping Germany :)

Team chemistry will definitely be higher than mist national sides


That, and maybe the fact that the old hands like Schweinsteiger and Lahm have finally won international titles will help. More confidence, assurance and the real belief that they can do it this time. History has proved that the best national teams are not necessarily the ones that have the best players, but rather the largest amount of players in the same club (Spain - Barca, Germany 1974 - Bayern, etc.). Obviously you have to have great players, but the team with 11 good players from the same club will usually (IMO) beat a team with 11 great players that play in 11 different clubs.

For me, the best team would be:

Muller/Klose
Reus Kroos Gotze
Gundogan Schweinsteiger
Schmelzer Boateng Mertesacker Lahm
Neuer

You can switch the front four around how you like, and put Badstuber instead of Mertesacker if he is fit in time. With a line up of Muller (not Klose) and Badstuber (not Mertesacker) you would have a team composed of 8 Bayern and 3 Dortmund players, which would be great in terms of chemistry and experience :)

I would have Bender in the midfield two with Schweinstiger, i think its too fragile with Gundogan also in their
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:13 pm

I agree with most of what I've read here but I doubt Low will omit M.Ozil from the starting line up...
one thing I don't agree with is Muller as a lone forward... I prefer Schurrle to be honest or if there will be a surprise call for Volland(although I've recently read somewhere that he prefers to play as a winger!)
Klose & Gomez obviously are the firm favourites to start in that role - depending on their physical shape. Unfourtunately Khadira might not be fit enough to make part of the team let alone claiming a starting stip.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:31 am

MatZam wrote:That, and maybe the fact that the old hands like Schweinsteiger and Lahm have finally won international titles will help. More confidence, assurance and the real belief that they can do it this time.

This is the biggest difference between now and 2008 (having been humiliated in the UEFA Cup semi-final), 2010 (Inter), and 2012 (2nd place). Things could change if we suffer another heartbreaking loss at the end of the season, but they're definitely transformed players now. Imagine the confidence they would have if we somehow, just somehow, defend that treble.

In my opinion, with all due respect to the players from other clubs and to Loew himself, I think Loew should keep the team as close to Bayern's as possible. In a time when Bayern are the gold standard in world football, it is the most sensible thing to do.

My lineup:


Bench: Adler/Weidenfeller, Howedes, Gundogan, Podolksi, Muller/Klose/Gomez, etc.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:52 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MatZam wrote:That, and maybe the fact that the old hands like Schweinsteiger and Lahm have finally won international titles will help. More confidence, assurance and the real belief that they can do it this time.

This is the biggest difference between now and 2008 (having been humiliated in the UEFA Cup semi-final), 2010 (Inter), and 2012 (2nd place). Things could change if we suffer another heartbreaking loss at the end of the season, but they're definitely transformed players now. Imagine the confidence they would have if we somehow, just somehow, defend that treble.

In my opinion, with all due respect to the players from other clubs and to Loew himself, I think Loew should keep the team as close to Bayern's as possible. In a time when Bayern are the gold standard in world football, it is the most sensible thing to do.

I am :o how we all changed our views regarding the 4-2-3-1 to the 4-1-4-1 :D
However I do feel that the 4-2-3-1 fits better the National team
I'd go for this
Subs: Weidenfeller,Ter Stegen, Howedes, Mertesacker,Gundogan, Kroos,Ozil,Podolski,Draxler,Khedira,Klose,Gomez

to be considered - Volland, Kruse, Sam, Rolfes, Jensen, Bender
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:51 pm

What if Loew plays Lahm as DM. Who can play RB then, Grosskreutz?
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB general » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:58 pm

Germany should more concentrate on defense and playing through conter-attack.



It's difficult to define first XI. Müller can be also benched in some cases, as well as Schürrle and Reus. We'll see who's gonna be in the chosen eleven. Draxler will be there too. Everything what kind of playing style you want to present, but I would work on defensive approach since Löw's team's conceding a lot of goals and he's been forcing the worst football in the last one and half year more familiar to Thomas Schaaf and to van Gaal's Bayern 2010/11.

Germany have a lot of options, but you have to select the best to finally get that gold. It's well-known in football that the great defense win trophies. in football, but Barcelona was the only team who won trophies without that and no one else.

Bayern won treble thanks to great defense and that includes some tactical adjustments, great CBs and central midfielders, even wingers and strikers. Löw's squad cannot be considered as another Barcelona or Spain simply because they[players] aren't raised under that Spanish school of football.

Germany must take a look at Jupp Heynckes and Jürgen Kloop football, that's the only way for Elf to get something more than bronze. I think Löw did have enough time in the past(and still has) studying Klopp and Heynckes(2012/13) work.

If Löw doesn't reach the final, I think it's time to say goodbye to him after 10 years in Nationalmannschaft.

MUTU wrote:What if Loew plays Lahm as DM. Who can play RB then, Grosskreutz?

Jerome Boateng. Mertesacker, Höwedes or Badstuber are gonna be that CB.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Achilles » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:28 pm

Seems that Jogi Low gives too much attention to the German press,he has to decide the starters,the philosophy,the system and pick 13-14 players as his main tools and rotate in the best way he can depending of course from the opponent.
I have a feeling that he wants to keep everyone happy,once BVB players and Klopp,Bayern board,Real Madrid back then with Ozil-Khedira,it's ridiculous.
Pick your starters based on your philosophy-style and their performances this year.You can't play Podolski for Christ's sake when you have options such as Reus,Draxler for the left wing... As much as I like Kroos,Ozil as a no.10 is better but if Low prefers Kroos for this role,play him and don't be afraid what media will say.Same goes for every position,Hummels is crap everytime I saw him with German NT,why is he going to play because he is a player of BVB and Klopp will moan? Of course not,we're talking about WC.Hummels-Boateng partnership is a disaster,pick the best duo that understands each other even if is Mertesacker-Howedes.
Bender is a fantastic DM but he still doesn't play for Germany,I don't get it,Low knows better of course but I think Schweinsteiger-Bender is awesome so if this doesn't work then play Gundogan-Bender which is tested at the highest level,I'm hearing about Lahm as a DM when Bender is ready for this role,who will play as an RB Boateng? It will be fun watching this,very funnny.One more thing about Germany which is very bad,no great striker,it's shame,without a great striker it's impossible to win it.

The roles must be crystal clear not thinking what the players or the media will say! Pick the starters and your main core,pick the benchers,period.

what I'd like to see from Germany (about the CB's I'm not certain but from what I've seen)

[formation]Neuer - Lahm,Mertesacker,Boateng-Schmelzer - Schweini,Bender - Muller,Ozil,Reus - Gotze/Schurrle[/formation]
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:34 pm

ramsej84 wrote:I am how we all changed our views regarding the 4-2-3-1 to the 4-1-4-1

I admit I was completely against it in the beginning, but started seeing potential in it from the very first friendly, although I was still unhappy at first. For me the important thing is that there is a pure DM. For example, I'm not happy about it when we play with Thiago as the 1, but love it when it is Lahm, or preferably, like vs Chelsea, Martinez.

In fact I remember saying in the chat before the Super Cup vs Chelsea started that as odd as it sounds, Lahm might be a better choice for us than Schweinsteiger in this formation and I was not worried about the lineup. :)

MUTU wrote:What if Loew plays Lahm as DM. Who can play RB then, Grosskreutz?


Boateng or Howedes probably, but Loew should not risk it. Besides, I'm hoping that Lahm will be a RB for Bayern by that time too.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MatZam » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Bayern can risk the 4-1-4-1 because we have a great defence. The German national team doesn't. What is needed is someone to fill the 'Martinez' role, basically present the footballing equivalent to a brick wall in front of the defence.

And I really don't agree with Lahm in the midfield role for the NT. With the most stacked midfield in the world, why on earth should we add another player to it who also happens to be our best defender?

Attack wins you games, defence wins you trophies.
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