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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Re: General German national team thread

Postby AdepT » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:35 am

Müller over Gotze/Reus/Ozil any day.
He has to be there until the match is over.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:42 am

Borusse wrote:What squad would you want to see on WC 2014?

Mine:

Neuer - Lahm, Boateng, Hummels, Schmelzer - Khedira, Schweinsteiger - Gotze, Ozil, Reus - Gomez(Muller)

Muller - if he can pull of being a striker.
Boateng - so Hummels can play as a left centerback. :mrgreen:

I think in 1,5 years this line-up will be deadly.


You can use the formation BBCode :)

Your formation:


I am still not convinced by Schmelzer. I think he is the weakest link in this formation.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:53 am

quaazi wrote:Haven't we established by now what happens to teams that don't have Müller in them when they could?


Firefox1234 wrote:AGREED! Muller is a game changer, he is the NT's savior in big games. His never say die attitude is the type of mentality the team needs right now. Its scientific law that things go wrong when Muller isn't playing :P


AdepT wrote:Müller over Gotze/Reus/Ozil any day.
He has to be there until the match is over.


I just love misconceptions. Let's look at the finals that Mueller played in.

2009/2010: DFB Pokal final: started the match, was subbed out late in the match, Bayern won
2009/2010: CL final: played 90 mins, lost.
2010/2011: DFL-Supercup: played 90 mins, won.
2011/2012: DFB Pokal final: came on at half time, Bayern lost.
2011/2012: CL final: started the match, was subbed out late in the match, Bayern lost
2012/2013: DFL-Supercup: played 90 mins, won.

Can someone see a pattern here? I don't.

He played 3 full finals: won 2 lost 1 (only victories here were in the least important cup of all, the DFL Supercup which is virtually a friendly)
Started the match and subbed out late in the match: won 1 lost 1
Started on the bench and came on at half time: lost 1
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MoFattal » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:50 am

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:04 am

Borusse wrote:I would put Muller before Gotze half a year ago, not now. I dont think Low can afford to ignore Gotze's developement, if Mario continues to play like this he will be an absolute top player after season 13/14, it will be a crime not to play him.

That's why I said it depends. If I were to pick them now, I would choose Reus-Ozil-Muller, but it depends a lot on how things stand in 2014. Personally I suspect that it will be Ozil who loses his places.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Borusse » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:33 am

MUTU wrote:I am still not convinced by Schmelzer. I think he is the weakest link in this formation.


I think so too but he is more and more solid every year. He will never be a world class LB but he definitely can step it up to just play on a decent level. Something like Arbelona in 2012 for Spain. Weakest link but did his part well.

I just cant see Gotze NOT playing in NT on WC2014. He will be too good by this time. Not trying to overrate my player, that is just the truth. :P
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby quaazi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:13 pm

MUTU wrote:Can someone see a pattern here? I don't.

Well considering we're in the German National Team thread, I'd add the two semifinals that Müller didn't feature in where Germany lost (one due to suspension but still). That makes four knockout games in which the game was lost when Müller was not on the pitch (2010 WC, 2012 DFB, 2012 CL, 2012 EURO), 3 that he DID win (though I agree having Supercups on that list is pretty pointless) and only one he lost (and arguably the only one we really didn't stand a chance in anyway). I certainly do see a pattern here!
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:23 pm

quaazi wrote:
MUTU wrote:Can someone see a pattern here? I don't.

Well considering we're in the German National Team thread, I'd add the two semifinals that Müller didn't feature in where Germany lost (one due to suspension but still). That makes four knockout games in which the game was lost when Müller was not on the pitch (2010 WC, 2012 DFB, 2012 CL, 2012 EURO), 3 that he DID win (though I agree having Supercups on that list is pretty pointless) and only one he lost (and arguably the only one we really didn't stand a chance in anyway). I certainly do see a pattern here!

OK, let's look at semifinals then, since you want to avoid finals.

2009/2010: CL semifinal leg 1 vs Lyon: played full match, won (0 goals, 0 assists)
2009/2010: CL semifinal leg 2 vs Lyon: played full match, won (0 goals, 1 assist)
2009/2010: DFB Pokal semifinal: played 120 mins, won (0 goals, 0 assists)
2010/2011: DFB Pokal semifinal: played 77 mins, lost (to a 15' goal scored while he was on the pitch — 0 goals, 0 assists)
2011/2012: CL semifinal leg 1 vs Real Madrid: came on in 61', won (0 goals, 0 assists)
2011/2012: CL semifinal leg 2 vs Real Madrid: came on in 95', lost (but went through on penalties AET, in which Mueller did not attempt a penalty — 0 goals, 0 assists)
2011/2012: Euro 2012 semifinal (wow, did you forget he played in this match?): came on in 71', lost (0 goals, 0 assists — at least a goal was scored while he was on the pitch, but it certainly wasn't his doing)

I fail to see the pattern. 4 semis won, 3 lost when he played. But out of around 450 semifinal minutes played, he has these massively great stats of 0 goals scored and 1 assist.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:47 pm

Guys, don't get the wrong idea from my research. I really love Mueller, but looking at him as a saviour is, well, inaccurate. I know he almost saved our asses against Chelsea, but overall he didn't put on his best performances in semifinals and finals.

I tried to find a video of his miss against Inter in the CL final 2010. It was Bayern's best chance all match.

Instead I found this video which I consider the unluckiest chance ever for Bayern :(

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby quaazi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:00 pm

I never said anything about goals or assists, Mutu, but the correlation between him on the pitch and successful results. And all but one of the semifinals you brought up (Schalke game in 2011) still supports the (quite unscientific, mind you!) theory (and there we had another big game performer to work against :P ).
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:05 pm

MUTU wrote:I tried to find a video of his miss against Inter in the CL final 2010. It was Bayern's best chance all match.


(01:05) :cry:



I always loved Müller with the NT much more than with Bayern, but now that there is this Götze + Reus explosive combination I think the NT should benefit from it

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:07 pm

The correlation between him on the pitch and successful results in important matches does not exist unless you want to only look at the DFL Supercup, the CL semis against Lyon and then attribute Balzaretti's handball against Germany to the presence of Mueller on the field.

The full stats speak differently.
3 finals won, 3 finals lost
4 semifinals won, 3 semifinals lost.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:10 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:
MUTU wrote:I tried to find a video of his miss against Inter in the CL final 2010. It was Bayern's best chance all match.


(01:05) :cry:


Thanks for this. I had actually forgotten that had Mueller scored in that clear 1on1, we would have tied the score 1-1. He made up for it 2 years later against Chelsea, but it still wasn't enough for us to win. And also definitely not enough to build a "correlation".
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby quaazi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:23 pm

MUTU wrote:then attribute Balzaretti's handball against Germany to the presence of Mueller on the field.

Well, yes, that's exactly what I am doing!

(I'm not sure if you realize this theory is quite tongue-in-cheek)
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby SchwanMunich » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:03 am

Muller needs to be on the pitch, he is a big game player regardless of the stats. Schmelzer is absolutely good enough to be our left defender. He can get the job done. Gotze is a rare gem, but like ozil, he lacks that hard nosed Kahn/effenberg mentality. They need to get tougher if we want to stand a chance. Spain may play tiki-taka football, but everyone on their team defends hard like animals. Gotze and Ozil defend like schoolgirls. Until Germany adapt a similar approach, we stand no chance of defeating Spain. Hopefully guardiola will help us transition to a similar style defensively. I just think with low's tactics Germany do not stand a chance against Spain.
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