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[2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:45 pm

Austria will win
0
No votes
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Germany will win
11
100%
 
Total votes : 11

Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby walter » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:50 pm

MUTU wrote:
quaazi wrote:If Holger or Hummels were fielded further up, that'd be the excuse Löw needs to play Mertesacker instead of actually competent players like Boateng and Höwedes. NEVER MIND.

Actually not a bad idea. Hummels has experience playing as DM (he was DM at FC Bayern II)

Badstuber/Hoewedes/Boateng for CD, Hummels in DM. But that would leave out someone from Schweinsteiger, Kroos or Khedira.


Exactly what I was gonna say, Hummels has experience playing DM, I think even at Dortmund he got too play a few games in that position. Why not? he has a good passing game too.
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby tflags » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:30 pm

quaazi wrote:I'm thinking that if Löw indeed wants to continue on that three-man defense experiment, he should just stick Müller as the other wingback. Wingbacks don't need positional awareness anyway, just a hard work ethic to make sure there's an extra man in defense at all times.


I must admit I have not seen enough games with this formation (besides, I have given up trying to figure out Barza's) but if this is the idea all I can say is 'please no.' I simply don't like Mueller covering a winger as I have never seen one single successful tackle from him or aggressive play required in defense.

Then again, the winger would need to get pass the center back too before making a successful cross.

BTW, why did this come up? Where you thinking any situation in particular on the goals against Germany? Just curious.
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby AvatarX » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:48 pm

quaazi wrote:I'm thinking that if Löw indeed wants to continue on that three-man defense experiment, he should just stick Müller as the other wingback. Wingbacks don't need positional awareness anyway, just a hard work ethic to make sure there's an extra man in defense at all times.


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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby walter » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:02 pm

if you wanna go Barcelona style this is what makes sense to me... not that I'm saying we should play like this, but in my mind this is what comes closest to a Barca lineup/formation

---------Neuer----------

Lahm, Boa, Baddy, ????

---------Hummels-------

Schweini----------Kroos

Goetze----Reus----Ozil
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:14 pm

------------------Neuer--------------
Lahm---Hummels--Badstuber--- :)
----Schweinsteiger--Khedira------
Müller---------Özil-----------Götze
---------------Reus------------------

:D

That's the kind of thing that Löw has to try in friendlies instead fielding a team full of reserve players. The striker and LB position need to be fixed soon. I don't trust in Gomez as long term solution for this team and tactics. Schürrle or Reus could be better options. In fact Reus and Götze are making sick stuff together in Dortmund. They have a special chemistry that could be very useful in the NT

Which German LB's are out there? Pander? Jansen? I think that Gonzalo Castro has played there at some point too (well, he has played in every position)

What I don't like from Pander is that he is way too much offensive minded but he surely deserves a try again with the NT based on Schmelzer and Aogo's performances

BTW what's going on with Germany U21 defense? It's the WORSE SH!T I've ever seen. They conceded 4 goals per game. Very passive defense. It's like a mix of Wolfsburg + Bremen defenses. #-o

---------------


And I'm a huge Alaba fan but he had another big mistake in Bernabeu that led to a clear goal chance that Khedira missed. Di Maria dribbled him very easily inside the penalty box, then carried the ball and then he assisted Khedira who luckily missed the goal just 2m in front of Neuer.
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby The Spyware » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:39 pm

I think Scmelzer should have another chances
I know he has been horrible so far but it may be a matter of confidence or mental thing
I was never one of his fans even last two seasons with Dortmund , I never saw him as that Wow LB , But he is still by far the best option and Loew should work heavily on giving him confidence to play in the way he plays wit Dortmund and It will be more than enough for the NT

For the rest of the formation I agree with what Xabi says above , only swapping Reus and Muller positions
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:46 pm

The Spyware wrote: only swapping Reus and Muller positions


hmm I thought so, but Müller's work rate is very important for the team and Reus needs to be fresh to destroy defenses and score fantastic goals :)
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby MoFattal » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:41 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:


Which German LB's are out there? Pander? Jansen? I think that Gonzalo Castro has played there at some point too (well, he has played in every position)


What about Contento? Yes, Contento! The guy has gained a lot of experience over the past couple seasons, and has been a reliable option for us at LB last term. Plus, he will be surrounded by fellow club-mates all over the pitch, which would make it much easier to adapt as compared to Schmelzer who looks completely out of sorts connecting with non-BVB players.

I know it is too much to ask, but the WC is still 2 years away, so there is definitely time to integrate the guy into the NT set-up. A senior call-up is all what it takes. Give the lad a trial.
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby BayernLove » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:05 am

MoFattal wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:


Which German LB's are out there? Pander? Jansen? I think that Gonzalo Castro has played there at some point too (well, he has played in every position)


What about Contento? Yes, Contento! The guy has gained a lot of experience over the past couple seasons, and has been a reliable option for us at LB last term. Plus, he will be surrounded by fellow club-mates all over the pitch, which would make it much easier to adapt as compared to Schmelzer who looks completely out of sorts connecting with non-BVB players.

I know it is too much to ask, but the WC is still 2 years away, so there is definitely time to integrate the guy into the NT set-up. A senior call-up is all what it takes. Give the lad a trial.

Definitely a HUGE fan of Contento and definitely think he is EXTREMELY underrated!
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby quaazi » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:23 am

Hell, guys, like I said, I'm just throwing out inane ideas. It's obvious that whatever Löw is doing isn't working, so some creative out-of-the-box thinking is required.
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--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby sooperdice » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:53 am

I'm a fan of contento but a bigger fan of alaba. I think that's the problem of why he won't get called up for the nt.
But you never know.

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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby Commodore » Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:46 am

Yeah, I too like Contento very much. I just think it's unrealistic to expect Löw to start someone at LB who's only the second option for that spot at his club at the expense of the starting LB of the Deutscher Meister.

Quaazi, I wasn't attacking you or your points. In fact I agree with you for the most part. It's just that being Bundestrainer you're under constant scrutiny of the German media and public. The dude (whoever is doing the job) is under a ton of pressure, and I just don't see them fielding Hummels or Badstuber at DM or Contento at LB any time soon.
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Re: [2012-09-11] Austria vs Germany

Postby Aequitas1987 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:15 am

If we are sticking with a traditional 4 man defence then I think Boateng should play full back.

Lahn, Badstuber, Hummels and Boateng is Germanys best defence with the resources they have currently.

Germany does not have hard working 'wing-back' type of players with the exception of Lahm. In fact if we were going to experiment with some form of Wing-back I would play Schweinsteiger there because hes transferred winger, has an insane work ethic and can cover ground. The formation would rely on swapping of spots a lot and ideally in one-touch chemistry. Ozil-Muller-Kroos-Reus have the capability of playing to this aggressive direct attacking style. Gotze can be bought in as a super sub for Kroos or Ozil and Gomez can be bought in for Muller or Reus.

'Total football swapping positions'

1.Schweinsteiger with Khedira
2.Schweinsteiger with Ozil
3. Kroos with Ozil
4. Muller with Ozil
5. Muller with Lahm


3-4-1-2

So
Neuer
Badstuber-Boateng-Hummels
Lahm(WB)----------Kroos---Khedira--------Schweinsteiger(WB)
--------------------------Ozil----------------------------------
--------------------Muller-----Reus---------------------------

Pros
+ Not having to deal with the fullback scenario of German NT
+ Fast direct football, dortmund/german style total football
+ Relies on work ethic
+ Wingbacks help negate counter-attack through the wings
+ Takes advantage of chemistry between Muller-Ozil-Kroos-Reus
+ Very easy to switch to a 4-2-3-1 by substituting either Kroos for Gotze or Reus for Gomez. (Lahm and Boateng fullbacks)

Cons
- Breaking up the chemistry of Schweinsteiger and Lahm by playing them on opposite sides of the pitch
- No towering striker presence in the box
- Difficult to play possession game against 4-3-3 as Kroos and Khedira can't control a 3 such as Spain's.
- Hard to double team dangerous wingers without opening up space in the centre of the pitch
- Tiredness late game
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