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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby JANCKER » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:57 am

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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby MUTU » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:58 pm


It keeps getting worse for RBL. I hope they get their act together and keep us on our feet until the last Bundesliga matchday.
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby JANCKER » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:09 pm

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Damn it, why not a instead of ö.
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby JANCKER » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:25 pm

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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:46 pm


Strange but makes sense.
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby MUTU » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:29 pm


What the heck? That's a trifle unfair on the fans.
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:10 pm

But you cannot have two teams sharing the same owner...

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U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby pyrasur » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:21 pm

ramsej84 wrote:But you cannot have two teams sharing the same owner...

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When is Bayern going to have a junior team in Austria? :)
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby MUTU » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:24 pm

ramsej84 wrote:But you cannot have two teams sharing the same owner...

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I just don't understand the point of this clause in UEFA Champions League regulations. This will encourage more bending of the rules. If Red Bull take the sensible path of playing RB Leipzig in the CL then they will probably loan a bunch of players from Red Bull Salzburg to increase their CL chances.
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby JANCKER » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:47 pm

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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:47 pm

JANCKER wrote:Image




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U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby DRvad14 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:00 am

Could RB Leipzig be banned from competing in the Champions League?

Spoiler: show
Currently second in the Bundesliga, RasenBallsport Leipzig are on course to qualify for next season's Champions League. However, some experts say the Red Bull-backed club could be in breach of UEFA regulations.
Article 5 of UEFA's rules and regulations for the 2016-17 Champions League season, entitled "integrity of the competition," states that "no individual or legal entity may have control or influence over more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition."
The company behind RasenBallsport Leipzig, Austrian energy-drink manufacturer Red Bull, are also the principal backers of FC Red Bull Salzburg - currently on course for an eighth Austrian Bundesliga title in 11 years and odds on favorites to qualify for next season's Champions League.
But according to a report in published in the Austrian newspaper "Salzburger Nachrichten" in February: "European football's governing body [UEFA] has signaled that only one Red Bull-backed club may play in the Champions League."
Should this be the case, only Red Bull Salzburg, as the higher positioned team in their league, would be permitted to compete. If both clubs qualify for the Champions League, which seems likely, one has to ask whether they conform to UEFA's regulations," former Rapid Vienna sporting director Andreas Müller told German public television station WDR when asked about the matter for a report that was broadcast on the weekend. "And the answer has to be: no, certainly not."In the same report, football lawyer Thomas Dehesselles added: "The fact that the two clubs could compete in the same competition, and potentially even directly against each other, would not just be legally dubious but also a sporting-political disaster."

Undeniable similarities
Red Bull insists that Red Bull Salzburg and RasenBallsport Leipzig are separate, independent entities but the links between the two teams are well documented.
Both are wholly dependent upon the financial backing of Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz and both feature the name of their parent company in their names - although the pseudonym RasenBallsport, an invented term which translates to "lawn ball sport," is used in Leipzig since the German football league (DFL), which operates the Bundesliga, prohibits the use of sponsor names.
Both teams play in the same kit with almost identical logos. Again, RB Leipzig's logo was altered slightly to adhere to DFL regulations. But that didn't prevent confusion in last summer's Champions League second qualifying round when Red Bull Salzburg's Andreas Ulmer emerged for the second half having accidently put on an RB Leipzig shirt.
There are overlaps in personnel as well. Up until this season, RB Leipzig's sporting director, Ralf Rangnick, credited as the brains behind RB Leipzig's sporting success, was also sporting director in Salzburg.
Similarly, RB Leipzig CEO Oliver Mintzlaff is also Red Bull's "head of global soccer." Earlier this year, he was obliged to physically clear his desk in Salzburg. However, the extent to which the two are still involved in both clubs remains unclear, especially given the similarities in playing style on teams throughout the entire Red Bull organization.
Controversial transfers
Transfers between the two clubs have also highlighted the levels of co-operation between Leipzig and Salzburg - although the Leipzig-based team increasingly appears to be favored, with Salzburg reduced to the role of what appears to be similar to a "farm team" in the North American model.
Nine of RB Leipzig's current Bundesliga squad were recruited from Salzburg and the transfer activity between the two clubs has raised eyebrows. Due to a clause in his contract prohibiting a move to a rival Austrian club, Rapid Vienna's Marcel Sabitzer wasn't permitted to sign for RB Salzburg in 2014. Instead, he signed for RB Leipzig who promptly loaned him to Salzburg.Last summer, full back Bernardo was suddenly transferred from Salzburg to Leipzig. No transfer fee was discussed with Rangnick stating: "We'll discuss the technicalities later."
Transfer dealings have also helped RB Salzburg circumvent UEFA's Financial Fair Play rules. In order to make the two clubs appear more independent, Red Bull has reduced its official role in Salzburg to that of principal sponsor rather than outright owner. But according to UEFA regulations, no single sponsor may contribute more than 30 percent of a club's total income.
Instead, RB Leipzig have paid inflated fees for players such as 18-year-old Dayot Upamecano (10 million euros, $10.7 million) and 22-year-old Naby Keita (15 million euros), thus enabling Red Bull to finance a large part of RB Salzburg's 60-million-euro budget indirectly via RB Leipzig.
New sponsors
Both clubs are searching for new sponsors to help share the burden and adhere to Financial Fair Play, but the search is proving difficult, at least in part because potential sponsors are put off by the dominant, omnipresent Red Bull branding.
RasenBallsport Leipzig insist that they are not worried about penalties or about their eligibility to compete in the Champions League since the two clubs are, legally speaking, separate entities. But against the background of such intricate co-operation, the two clubs now run the risk of falling foul of UEFA's regulations.
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby aterford » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:44 am

Relevant:
UEFA wrote:5.01 To ensure the integrity of the UEFA club competitions, the following criteria apply:
a. no club participating in a UEFA club competition may, either directly or
indirectly:
i. hold or deal in the securities or shares of any other club participating in a
UEFA club competition,
ii. be a member of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition,
iii. be involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration
and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club
competition, or
iv. have any power whatsoever in the management, administration and/or
sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club
competition;
b. no one may simultaneously be involved, either directly or indirectly, in any
capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting
performance of more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition;
c. no individual or legal entity may have control or influence over more than one
club participating in a UEFA club competition, such control or influence being
defined in this context as:
i. holding a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights;
ii. having the right to appoint or remove a majority of the members of the
administrative, management or supervisory body of the club;
iii. being a shareholder and alone controlling a majority of the shareholders’
voting rights pursuant to an agreement entered into with other
shareholders of the club; or
iv. being able to exercise by any means a decisive influence in the decisionmaking
of the club.

If two or more clubs fail to meet the criteria aimed at ensuring the integrity of the
competition, only one of them may be admitted to a UEFA club competition, in
accordance with the following criteria (applicable in descending order):
a. the club which qualifies on sporting merit for the more prestigious UEFA club
competition (i.e., in descending order: UEFA Champions League and UEFA
Europa League);
b. the club which was best-ranked in the domestic championship giving access
to the relevant UEFA club competition;
c. the club whose association has the highest association coefficient ranking,
drawn up in accordance with Annex D.


1. Only one can be in Champions League; the other can't even be in Europa League
2. As it stands RB Salzburg is 7 points clear at the top of Austrian BL which would put them in UCL and RB Leipzig would not be allowed in UCL or Europa League.
3. Bundesliga has a higher UEFA coefficient than Austrian BL, but point UEFA weighs domestic performance higher than UEFA coefficient in these matters--meaning that if RB Salzburg wins Austrian BL they will be given preference over RB Leipzig (unless RBL manages somehow to win the Bundesliga)

So -- it all depends on RB Salzburg winning Austrian BL, but, if they do, Red Bull doesn't get to choose which team to send. Salzburg goes if they win ABL, Red Bull can't simply choose to have Leipzig compete....unless by some miracle they are able to convince UEFA that RB Leipzig and RB Salzburg are truly independent entities...but the stipulations laid out in UEFA's rules seem to have covered every loophole I can possibly think of...
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby bbenno » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:27 am

I dont understand how the RB people in charge haven't thought about this up front before the project?
If what aterford states holds in the end, then its a major blow to the whole RB project.
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Re: RasenBallsport Leipzig

Postby MUTU » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:12 am

I will never understand UEFA's rules. In order to cover themselves for the possibility of the teams playing against each other, they open up more cheating. Chances are that if they're not going to be allowed to participate with both teams, Red Bull heads will order Red Bull Salzburg to lose matches on purpose, then loan all of Red Bull Salzburg's best players to RB Leipzig just so they will have the best team possible playing in the CL.

The other possibility is that Red Bull Salzburg win the league and half of RB Leipzig's team will be loaned to Red Bull Salzburg next season and RB Leipzig would end up struggling to avoid relegation next season. In any case, all this is unfair for the teams of both countries involved. Currently the 5th place team in Germany (Hertha BSC) don't know whether or not they will be playing in the CL next season if they retain their position in the table, nor will they be able to plan during the transfer windows because they have no idea if their aim is to be in the top 4 or the top 5.
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