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General German football thread

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Re: General German football thread

Postby RedQueen » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:09 pm

Bild says Krug has been fired both as the chief of the VAR project and as a VAR supervisor.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby RedQueen » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:33 pm

The DFL has reacted to the whole chaos now, with an urgent letter demanding a reform of the entire referee system.

They demand an independent referee organisation to be founded in cooperation by DFL and DFB, and clear rules for the use of VAR.

Sounds like progress.

E: The only English source as of now:
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Re: General German football thread

Postby America USA » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:15 pm

I personally love the member ownership rule of Bundesliga clubs. It’s so refreshing and positive compared to other places where a corrupt oil oligarch decides to buy a plaything for himself.

Now I’m gonna plagiarize from Abraham Lincoln - German football is of the fans, by the fans, for the fans. It’s the fans that make the game so much better. German football has highest average attendance with reasonable ticket prices and the stadiums are usually electric.

In a world where everything is about the almighty dollar, the 50+1 is a welcome change. Unlike Citeh, Chelski and Q$G, German clubs have no chance of becoming paupers overnight if their billionaire owner says he’s had enough, or the completely opposite scenario with Arsenal where a tight fisted billionaire owner is holding the club back.

I do not understand why some members want to see the death of fan based football culture in Germany and replace it with the madness of England/Italy. Or the government funded Spanish Clubs (https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... s-brussels)

IMHO the “demise” of German football has been over exaggerated. Yes BL clubs are having a poor season in Europe this year but it’s not all doom and gloom like so many users over here are making it out to be. Clubs like Cologne and Hoffenheim made it to Europe because the usual contenders like Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Schalke and Gladbach were poor last season. Also, it is this fan based model that makes sure quality youngsters keep coming up in Germany and in turn boost Die Mannschaft. Look at English football, Chelsea, City and Arsenal for instance have so many talented Young English players but these youngsters would never be played regularly in the first team and instead millions would be spent on foreign imports.

This might not be the best time internationally for the German clubs but I hope the DFB doesn’t sell its soul to the devil in desperation! I hope that the Germans can keep and preserve the unique nature and spirit of German football in the face of adversity.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby RedQueen » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:32 pm

There are good reasons for wanting the rule gone. The most important one for me is that it is most likely illegal under European law. The main reason is that the DFL, which is a private association, is imposing restrictions on free investment; unless the clubs - which are corporations, enterprises - meet their requirements, they cannot play Bundesliga football. For a comparison, that is like the German automotive association is telling Mercedes, VW and Porsche who can vote in their general assembly and who can't, and if they don't comply, they aren't allowed to sell cars.

The problem with the rule being illegal - and everyone from Rummenigge to Bruchhagen knows it and openly admits it; it was Bruchhagen, I think, who admitted recently they even knew it was illegal when they established it - is that each time somebody threatens to sue, the DFL has to make an exception, just to prevent that somebody from taking it to court and uphold that rule. As a result we have now three clubs in the top flight that operate outside 50+1 (Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim) because of exceptions, one club that's only technically under 50+1 (Leipzig), and soon there will be another exception, Hannover, which will be granted because of a move by Martin Kind.

So that's five out of 18 clubs, almost a third, that do not operate under 50+1, or only technically. This is a major injustice to the rest, and imo, all other considerations pro or con 50+1 aside, enough reason why the current situation can't go on. I'm not saying the rule has to be scrapped, but at the very least it has to be reformed, in order to be compatible with European (and German) law. Because otherwise, it's only a matter of time until the next investor shows up and threatens to sue. Ismaik has already taken the case to the Kartellamt and announced if need be he'll take it to the European Court. If that happens, the DFL better have a plan B ready, because there's little doubt that the court will take the rule down.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:20 am

America USA wrote:This might not be the best time internationally for the German clubs but I hope the DFB doesn’t sell its soul to the devil in desperation!


I am not disagreeing with you, sir. As I said in the Uli thread a good part of me want Bayern and BL teams to stay the way they are, being pure, stay away from state-sponsored $$. It has to be nice just focusing on football.

But unfortunately Nein. Football is now an industry that makes tens of billions of $ every year. When there's that much money involved, all kinds of guys come in for a feast. There is just no way you can stop it.

I want Bayern to stay pure, but I don't want Bayern to regress to the level of Sampdoria.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby RedQueen » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:02 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
America USA wrote:This might not be the best time internationally for the German clubs but I hope the DFB doesn’t sell its soul to the devil in desperation!


I am not disagreeing with you, sir. As I said in the Uli thread a good part of me want Bayern and BL teams to stay the way they are, being pure, stay away from state-sponsored $$. It has to be nice just focusing on football.

But unfortunately Nein. Football is now an industry that makes tens of billions of $ every year. When there's that much money involved, all kinds of guys come in for a feast. There is just no way you can stop it.

I want Bayern to stay pure, but I don't want Bayern to regress to the level of Sampdoria.

Please. We're anything but pure. VW/Audi, Allianz etc. own 25 percent of the shares and are sitting on the supervisory board.

Modern football clubs in the top flight are corporations. Corporations aren't democracies for good reasons. Look around - fans include hools, left wing and right wing extremists. Do you really want those people to have a - maybe decisive - vote in important decisions? You don't even need extremists for foolish decisions. Cllub members voted Uli back into power, something unthinkable in a normal corporation. They did so for purely sentimental reasons. What good has that done the club?

Have you heard or read a transcript of his speech today? A coach doesn't have to know what a false nine is, what a double six is, what high press is? "Packing" means a player hits the ball into nowhere?

And the whole stupid mob applauds.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:02 am

RedQueen wrote:Have you heard or read a transcript of his speech today? A coach doesn't have to know what a false nine is, what a double six is, what high press is? "Packing" means a player hits the ball into nowhere?


This is unbelievable. The only explanation is, I think, Uli wants some "yes-man" to be the coach. I suggest Uli take the helm himself.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:58 am

Bayern has wealthy fans and it is also a big team which will also attract big sponsors.
No I don't want a non German as the nr.1 supremo of the club.
Never.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:31 pm

RedQueen wrote:There are good reasons for wanting the rule gone. The most important one for me is that it is most likely illegal under European law. The main reason is that the DFL, which is a private association, is imposing restrictions on free investment; unless the clubs - which are corporations, enterprises - meet their requirements, they cannot play Bundesliga football. For a comparison, that is like the German automotive association is telling Mercedes, VW and Porsche who can vote in their general assembly and who can't, and if they don't comply, they aren't allowed to sell cars.

The problem with the rule being illegal - and everyone from Rummenigge to Bruchhagen knows it and openly admits it; it was Bruchhagen, I think, who admitted recently they even knew it was illegal when they established it - is that each time somebody threatens to sue, the DFL has to make an exception, just to prevent that somebody from taking it to court and uphold that rule. As a result we have now three clubs in the top flight that operate outside 50+1 (Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim) because of exceptions, one club that's only technically under 50+1 (Leipzig), and soon there will be another exception, Hannover, which will be granted because of a move by Martin Kind.

So that's five out of 18 clubs, almost a third, that do not operate under 50+1, or only technically. This is a major injustice to the rest, and imo, all other considerations pro or con 50+1 aside, enough reason why the current situation can't go on. I'm not saying the rule has to be scrapped, but at the very least it has to be reformed, in order to be compatible with European (and German) law. Because otherwise, it's only a matter of time until the next investor shows up and threatens to sue. Ismaik has already taken the case to the Kartellamt and announced if need be he'll take it to the European Court. If that happens, the DFL better have a plan B ready, because there's little doubt that the court will take the rule down.


Think the comparison doesn’t work... It IS DFB‘s competition... Why shouldn’t they be allowed to decide who is allowed to take part in it?
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Re: General German football thread

Postby RedQueen » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:32 pm

They can, provided they don't violate European law.

It's not like clubs can just leave and go about their business in another competition.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:28 am

RedQueen wrote:It's not like clubs can just leave and go about their business in another competition.


I remember one time Bayern was dissatisfied about the lack of competitiveness of BL and threatened to quit BL and join the Italian League.

Somehow I dont' know whether the Italian wanted to make fun of Bayern, or took it as serious, they responded, yes, you can come, but you have to start from 4. Liga.

Since then Bayern have not talked about leaving BL.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:36 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
RedQueen wrote:It's not like clubs can just leave and go about their business in another competition.


I remember one time Bayern was dissatisfied about the lack of competitiveness of BL and threatened to quit BL and join the Italian League.

Somehow I dont' know whether the Italian wanted to make fun of Bayern, or took it as serious, they responded, yes, you can come, but you have to start from 4. Liga.

Since then Bayern have not talked about leaving BL.
Remember that as well, no they were not making fun of then, it is a standard procedure I guess.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:22 pm

Well, there’s tons of competitions - offering less or no money, of course...
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Re: General German football thread

Postby Jorge » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:18 am

Happy Birthday Ewald Lienen (today St. Pauli's Sporting Director)

I can't forget that this challenge that left his femur exposed:
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:53 am

Jorge wrote:Happy Birthday Ewald Lienen (today St. Pauli's Sporting Director)

I can't forget that this challenge that left his femur exposed:
how did that happen?

Wow OH had to wear a bullet proof

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