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General German football thread

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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:48 am

ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:Yes, 50+1 needs to go. For the best clubs playing in Europe, there's the UEFA Financial Fair Play. However, the FFP is not relevant to the lower table clubs. If the 50+1 is removed, they could perhaps start to compete and worry later about FFP.


what about the 50+1 is imposed on every club in Europe...
A cap on transfer fee is imposed
and remove the free transfers for good

You want to force every European football association to implement a highly-criticized regulation in their football leagues rather than Germany removing theirs? Good luck with that.

Also, some of us would like the Bundesliga to be more competitive, rather than get other leagues to become less competitive.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:00 am

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
MUTU wrote:Yes, 50+1 needs to go. For the best clubs playing in Europe, there's the UEFA Financial Fair Play. However, the FFP is not relevant to the lower table clubs. If the 50+1 is removed, they could perhaps start to compete and worry later about FFP.


what about the 50+1 is imposed on every club in Europe...
A cap on transfer fee is imposed
and remove the free transfers for good

You want to force every European football association to implement a highly-criticized regulation in their football leagues rather than Germany removing theirs? Good luck with that.

Also, some of us would like the Bundesliga to be more competitive, rather than get other leagues to become less competitive.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:57 am

I don't see how you can stop free transfers or impose a cap on fees. You can't tell someone what to do with their money as long as it's legal.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:30 pm

There is no point in abolishing the 50+1 rule unless you fix first the TV deal thing. That's the source of the issue. If there's no money to be made in German football, then foreign money will have no interest.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:07 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:There is no point in abolishing the 50+1 rule unless you fix first the TV deal thing. That's the source of the issue. If there's no money to be made in German football, then foreign money will have no interest.

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You do realise that what we have here is a classic chicken and egg situation, right?
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Re: General German football thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:21 pm

MUTU wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:There is no point in abolishing the 50+1 rule unless you fix first the TV deal thing. That's the source of the issue. If there's no money to be made in German football, then foreign money will have no interest.

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You do realise that what we have here is a classic chicken and egg situation, right?

I don't think so. The ultimate source of the disparity for me is that the English are willing to pay loads of money to watch football, while Germans don't. I don't think that's caused by a lack of investing by clubs, but rather a cultural thing. I may be wrong though.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:16 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
MUTU wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:There is no point in abolishing the 50+1 rule unless you fix first the TV deal thing. That's the source of the issue. If there's no money to be made in German football, then foreign money will have no interest.

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You do realise that what we have here is a classic chicken and egg situation, right?

I don't think so. The ultimate source of the disparity for me is that the English are willing to pay loads of money to watch football, while Germans don't. I don't think that's caused by a lack of investing by clubs, but rather a cultural thing. I may be wrong though.

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It's not the only source. It's true English pay more but the real disparity is observed where one compares the foreign TV rights by both countries. The Premier league attracts several times more money from outside the country than does the Bundesliga.

Also, more to the original point, the possibility exists for Germans not paying so much to watch the Bundesliga being that they don't see it as competitive. If foreign investment comes along and the Bundesliga becomes a 6 horse race, more money would be obtained from the German TV market too.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:31 pm

MUTU wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
MUTU wrote:[quote="PunkCapitalist"]There is no point in abolishing the 50+1 rule unless you fix first the TV deal thing. That's the source of the issue. If there's no money to be made in German football, then foreign money will have no interest.

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You do realise that what we have here is a classic chicken and egg situation, right?

I don't think so. The ultimate source of the disparity for me is that the English are willing to pay loads of money to watch football, while Germans don't. I don't think that's caused by a lack of investing by clubs, but rather a cultural thing. I may be wrong though.

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It's not the only source. It's true English pay more but the real disparity is observed where one compares the foreign TV rights by both countries. The Premier league attracts several times more money from outside the country than does the Bundesliga.

Also, more to the original point, the possibility exists for Germans not paying so much to watch the Bundesliga being that they don't see it as competitive. If foreign investment comes along and the Bundesliga becomes a 6 horse race, more money would be obtained from the German TV market too.[/quote]
Well I dont know the numbers well enough to argue point 1. Point 2, nevertheless, contradicts the fact that stadia are always full.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:46 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Point 2, nevertheless, contradicts the fact that stadia are always full.

Crunch the numbers. See how many English people watch the Premier League on TV and then check the maximum capacities for their stadiums. There's far more people watching on TV than at the stadium.

Also, people fill the stadiums because ticket prices in Germany are ridiculously cheap. In fact, the low ticket prices themselves directly influence how much money people are willing to pay to watch the match on TV instead. Let me bring an example... imagine, hypothetically, that a season ticket costs €100 but a TV subscription would set you back €90, would you pay that much for TV? If you live close to the stadium, you'd figure that for €10 more you might as well be present at the stadium. Of course, these are all imaginary numbers, but I'm pretty sure that if stadium prices are increased, not only would more people pay to watch the matches on TV (since they'd be priced out of attending the matches and would resort to TV instead) but each of them would also likely to be ready to pay more, since the relative perception of value of watching on TV versus attending is more favourable. Hope I made myself understandable.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:20 pm

"Ridiculously cheap?" Nah, the Tommies are ridiculously expensive! I'm sorry, but how is it justified that I have to pay more than a day's income for a 90 minute highlight? Prices are just fine here... Also, we still have a fan scene here... And that's not just the big earners if you know what I mean?! PL will always make more money because they have an advantage in the market... Might change now that they **** themselves up... But hey, maybe now their NT will make it past the quarterfinals ince or twice in the future...
Someone, fire that Italian **** already! I don't care who, I don't care how much it costs or who'll be the next coach - just make sure he's gone and he stays gone!!!
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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:17 pm

#12 wrote:"Ridiculously cheap?" Nah, the Tommies are ridiculously expensive! I'm sorry, but how is it justified that I have to pay more than a day's income for a 90 minute highlight? Prices are just fine here... Also, we still have a fan scene here... And that's not just the big earners if you know what I mean?! PL will always make more money because they have an advantage in the market... Might change now that they **** themselves up... But hey, maybe now their NT will make it past the quarterfinals ince or twice in the future...

It's a matter of opinion. I have never watched Bayern play a competitive match. I would gladly pay half my monthly salary to go watch a league match, but the near-impossibility of finding tickets is what keeps me back. I envy the Serie A fans in Malta. They can get a Ryanair flight, go to the stadium, buy a ticket at the entrance and proceed inside with no hassles. But because the Bundesliga tickets are ridiculously cheap (sorry for repeating this but I wanted to emphasise it) the Bayern tickets for example for the whole season are sold in a matter of a few hours even before the schedule is finalised.

What Germans don't realise is that there are fans outside their country. They keep pushing them away by a so-called fan friendly culture which is only really friendly to local fans. The fact that the stadia are always sold out makes it far more difficult to be able to watch a match.

So yes, please increase the prices. Make more money from the fans and get more foreigners coming to the stadium.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:20 pm

Addendum: It's also unfriendly towards local fans. Here's a scenario for an AC Milan fan living in Milan: "What do you feel like doing this afternoon? How about we go watch the match that kicks off in an hour's time live at the stadium? Cool? OK, see you by the gates."

Good luck translating this conversation to Munich. You have to pay aftermarket prices (which end up more expensive than the Serie A prices) and plan days in advance. In fact, Munich and Dortmund are one of the very few places in all of Europe where this won't be valid.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:29 pm

@MUTU but how can you blame them, thanks to the local fans they are guaranteed to have a full house, while if they do as you say they risk ending up with many unsold seats.

As for the italian football fans - yes you are right... but this does not apply for the Juve ones...

Even culture wise it makes a difference... the local clubs have a closer relationship to the respective teams. Our club has to overcome a lot of red tape... : language barrier, Germans are more reserved etc...
Look how many times , current & ex players and coaches came to Malta from other teams vs those from Bayern.

Last Dybala came for a charity event but Juve fans had the opportunity to meet him and to contribute to a charity org
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Re: General German football thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:33 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Look how many times , current & ex players and coaches came to Malta from other teams vs those from Bayern

I think there are other factors influencing this. English and Italian players, like English and Italian people in general, are aware of Malta and consider it a top travel destination. Several English players own property here and several Italian players visit often and have Maltese friends. With the Germans it's very different in general, not just for football.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:35 pm

We should try to get Carletto .... I'll speak to the President... maybe during Christmas
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