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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bazi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:47 pm

Bad news for our friend 'Borusse'

He once again may decide to not believe me but Borussia Dortmund's 'record profit' may very well turn out to be nothing but a gigantic accounting smokescreen.

According to BVB's quarterly statement of accounts (they are at the stock exchange so they have to) there are LESS than € 4m on the bank accounts (liquid assets).

There may be some outstanding payments like the money from UEFA but this shows that there are no gigantic reserves to utilize. If Dortmund wants to invest next year they have to get out of the CL group stage and make another deep run in the Champions League.

Otherwise they might need to sell a player like Gündogan unless he finally decides to renew his contract.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:56 pm

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Now Im all depressed.

Oh wait, Im not cause I dont believe you. How about that? :)

If this is public information it would be all over twitter and papers but its not. First time reading it and probably the last. You are the only source (unreliable too, no offence) that tries to convince me how poor Borussia Dortmund are. And you've been trying to do that for a while. Im bored with that. :wink:

There surely must be some other more interesting things for you to do than this. Find yourself a hobby.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bazi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:15 pm

Borusse wrote:Image

Now Im all depressed.

Oh wait, Im not cause I dont believe you. How about that? :)

If this is public information it would be all over twitter and papers but its not. First time reading it and probably the last. You are the only source (unreliable too, no offence) that tries to convince me how poor Borussia Dortmund are. And you've been trying to do that for a while. Im bored with that. :wink:


Ah my dear Borusse. As if the casual twitter or a majority of the media was interested in dire bookkeeping but I'm happy to deliver you the proof.

Here's the quarterly financial report.

http://aktie.bvb.de/Publikationen/Quart ... -2013-2014

Go to page 20/32 in the PDF file, the title is 'Konzernbilanz'

Now go the the row which is called ''Zahlungsmittel und Zahlungsmitteläquivalente' which translates into 'liquid assets and equivalents for liquid assets'

Here you'll see a decrease in liquid assets from € 12.5m to € 3.7m.

That's your club's official quarterly report. Suit yourself. I'm not making Borussia Dortmund any poorer. Just stating cold facts.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby runaway » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:17 pm

Bazi wrote:According to BVB's quarterly statement of accounts (they are at the stock exchange so they have to) there are LESS than € 4m on the bank accounts (liquid assets).


Borusse wrote:If this is public information it would be all over twitter and papers but its not. First time reading it and probably the last. You are the only source (unreliable too, no offence) that tries to convince me how poor Borussia Dortmund are. And you've been trying to do that for a while. Im bored with that.


I'm not German and I don't understand the language, but as Bazi said, BVB is in the stock market so their Financial statements would be public. If anyone can peruse the balance sheet, we can easily confirm the truth about it. I think the reason these things don't appear on the media much is because few really care about that side of football.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:22 pm

I really couldnt care less about your proof. :wink: You may have all the proof in the world, I won't be drawn into this.

Have a good day sir and please leave me out of your antics. :wink: As I said, you bore the hell out of me.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bazi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:30 pm

Borusse wrote:I really couldnt care less about your proof. :wink: You may have all the proof in the world, I won't be drawn into this.

Have a good day sir and please leave me out of your antics. :wink: As I said, you bore the hell out of me.


So first you're implying that I'm a liar, then I give you the proof and now you're chickening out. Interesting and at least very bad stile. I have no personal interest in what you call 'antics'. I merely started to point those facts to you because they don't go along well with your hopes for investments next summer.

That's really all the reason why I thought about mentioning your name. Well since this is a Bayern München forum, other people who are intersted in reading about our biggest national competitor might still be interested in this information. So it doesn't really matter if you are interested or not.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:34 pm

Sorry for implying you're a liar, that was not my intention at all. All I was saying is that I dont belive you because even if you have the pdf's I cant trust you to read them right at all, no matter how long you will be persuading me. If I dont see this information from a reliable source I won't believe it, no offence.

Thats all from me on the subject.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:05 pm

While I do not possess the necessary financial knowledge to understand what this implies, nor is my German good enough to understand it (although it is improving fast :) ), like Borusse I find this hard to believe. The truth is that looking at the team over the past few years, it's obvious they have more money to invest now than they had a few years back.

Besides, it's only logical that they are making more money considering they are doing so much better in sporting terms.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby runaway » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:29 pm

I studied Finance but then again, Football finance is a bit different. But from what I read in the quarterly report, BvB's finance is healthy enough as a business but to be able to pay their players with competitive salaries would take a good run in UCL and Bundesliga to generate the large income like from last year. The biggest source of income came from advertising, merchandise, and broadcast.

As for buying players in winter, BvB would still be able to even if they have little cash on hand; since clubs can use different financial instruments in deals. The key really is if BvB can afford to increase the salaries they offer to their players especially key players.If the personnel expenses in the income statement refers to the players' and employees' salaries, then we can see that just a slight increase in that amount without the revenue increasing can already result in negative profits.

We can see that BvB's squad is quite stretched as it is. Selling a player wouldn't do any good to BvB financially unless they do a 'Bale sale', because they would need to replace the sold player. In their financial statement (quarterly report), revenue from transfers was only 1.5M EUR.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:36 pm

runaway wrote:I studied Finance but then again, Football finance is a bit different. But from what I read in the quarterly report, BvB's finance is healthy enough as a business but to be able to pay their players with competitive salaries would take a good run in UCL and Bundesliga to generate the large income like from last year. The biggest source of income came from advertising, merchandise, and broadcast.

As for buying players in winter, BvB would still be able to even if they have little cash on hand; since clubs can use different financial instruments in deals. The key really is if BvB can afford to increase the salaries they offer to their players especially key players.If the personnel expenses in the income statement refers to the players' and employees' salaries, then we can see that just a slight increase in that amount without the revenue increasing can already result in negative profits.

We can see that BvB's squad is quite stretched as it is. Selling a player wouldn't do any good to BvB financially unless they do a 'Bale sale', because they would need to replace the sold player. In their financial statement (quarterly report), revenue from transfers was only 1.5M EUR.

Now that makes sense. It explains why salaries are still Dortmund's biggest problem.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bazi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:08 pm

Quite odd. Nowhere did I claim Borussia Dortmund is in financial trouble. They are a healthy and sound company. Runaway's explanation is pretty accurate in that regard as well.

However their cash reserves are nowhere near as big as the 'record profit' led some people to believe. I observed on several occasions that quite a few Dortmund fans were calculating the club's future investments with the € 50m profit from this past summer.

All I wanted to point out is that this 'profit' isn't lying on some bank account, this amount of money was the result of smart bookkeeping in order to present this impressive result in the media. Thinking that this is money to spent is a major misconception.

Still, Borussia Dortmund will be able to replace Lewandowski and they'll certainly be able to sign Sahin. They'll just have to do it on a budget and not with a big financial reserves. That's my point.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby runaway » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:50 am

Bazi wrote:However their cash reserves are nowhere near as big as the 'record profit' led some people to believe. I observed on several occasions that quite a few Dortmund fans were calculating the club's future investments with the € 50m profit from this past summer.

They might have forgotten to take into account that the 50mil revenue was used to pay for their operating expenses. After deducting it, their Operating profit is 2.2M EUR.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Badger » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:24 pm

I’ve been wondering about a few bits of Borussia Dortmund news which have emerged in the past few weeks.
- Dortmund’s profits have been quite small this year
- Dortmund let it be known that Reus has a buy-out clause in his contract
- (And although not new) The on-going Lewandowski saga.

I don’t believe that Dortmund are in worrying financial circumstances – not yet anyway. A loss to Napoli might tip the scales, however. Irrelevant of the footballing loss, it would be a loss of revenue that Dortmund is nearly dependent upon, and it might trigger a few scenarios that involve selling players.

Firstly, if Lewandowski would go anywhere other than to Bayern, they’d sell him in January to get some money, rather than let him go freely in the summer. If Lewandowski refuses to go anywhere else, and Dortmund are too far behind Bayern in the league, they may even consider letting him go to Bayern in January.

Secondly, if anyone (other than Bayern) tries to trigger the release clause in Reus’ contract, there will be a lot of drama – can’t let the fans think they’d sell a favourite star easily – but in the end they’d let him go. Their ideal customer would be Man Utd, who might be persuaded to commute it from a buy-out to a transfer and to part with Kagawa as a makeweight, at a low enough value to make a comfortable profit for Dortmund.

This could be the most interesting January for years.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:08 pm

Badger wrote:I’ve been wondering about a few bits of Borussia Dortmund news which have emerged in the past few weeks.
- Dortmund’s profits have been quite small this year
- Dortmund let it be known that Reus has a buy-out clause in his contract
- (And although not new) The on-going Lewandowski saga.

I don’t believe that Dortmund are in worrying financial circumstances – not yet anyway. A loss to Napoli might tip the scales, however. Irrelevant of the footballing loss, it would be a loss of revenue that Dortmund is nearly dependent upon, and it might trigger a few scenarios that involve selling players.

Firstly, if Lewandowski would go anywhere other than to Bayern, they’d sell him in January to get some money, rather than let him go freely in the summer. If Lewandowski refuses to go anywhere else, and Dortmund are too far behind Bayern in the league, they may even consider letting him go to Bayern in January.

Secondly, if anyone (other than Bayern) tries to trigger the release clause in Reus’ contract, there will be a lot of drama – can’t let the fans think they’d sell a favourite star easily – but in the end they’d let him go. Their ideal customer would be Man Utd, who might be persuaded to commute it from a buy-out to a transfer and to part with Kagawa as a makeweight, at a low enough value to make a comfortable profit for Dortmund.

This could be the most interesting January for years.

It has been reported that Reus' release clause cant be activated till the summer of 2015
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:33 pm

We are on the crossroads. The next weeks and months will decide the future of the club. We might become a European powerhouse but we can as easily make a few steps back and struggle.

I think we are past the stage in which we have to worry about getting into TOP3, we are good enough to always take part in Champions League group stages in the next 3-4 years. But this season will probably decide whether we will become one of Europe's best teams for longer period or we'll just stay a very good Bundesliga team but posing no threat to the best.
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