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Borussia Dortmund

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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:53 am

Commodore wrote:Let me begin my reply with:

It's not that I disagree but consider what's just happened at at Dortmund. :D

They were factually at the very least a top-five side in the world (I'm talking football exclusively here, no administrative/financial stuff). One of the greatest football minds and tacticians of our time at the helm, sick, young players and a chemistry in the team and a willingness to give it their all in the big games, like, to be honest, was only shown by Bayern this year.

I just had to cringe every time Klopp went way over the top making themselves smaller than they were. It was embarrassing, and I do think that stuff like that does have an influence on the players, the team as a whole. Some players just want to be Goliath once in a while, instead of David all the time. But they couldn't even be Goliath against mid-table Bundesliga teams, because those, too, according to Klopp's interviews, were all but favourites over Dortmund week in week out. In many of these games you could already see the motivation of the players drop significantly. Defeated by Hamburg twice, by their arch rivals twice, drew Düsseldorf at home, etc.

Top it all off with an embarrassing, belittling #fairytale before the final, and after the final a sticker that looks like this:

Spoiler: show
Image

(for the non-Germans. "Siegerlage" is a meshed word out of the German words "Sieg" (victory) and "Niederlage" (defeat). "Victefeat", if you will)


And you are in full blown "Meister der Herzen" territory.

I, as a fan of Borussia Dortmund, would puke.

And I, as a proponent of at least one strong rival in the Bundesliga (to make us stronger) am disgusted by such an attitude.

That they will not be on par with us financially within the year was obvious. No need to spell that out. But the last two years in the Bundesliga were no fluke (football wise at the very least, but business wise neither), yet all this club ever does is devaluing what they have achieved by making it look like it, indeed, was just a fluke, divine intervention, or alas: A fairytale.

I can't respect an attitude like that.


You cant respect Dortmund's attitude? I can't respect Bayern's attitude of having a superiority complex and being very, very poor losers. At the end of the day I prefer to be a supporter of a humble club where:
- fans represent true love for the club and stay with them for better or worse
- management appreciates what they have and what they achieved.

Than a supporter of a club in which everybody thinks they are the best even in times when its far from the truth. Mia san arrogant fools. There you go, just a random banter for you and your dumbass comments about my club. :)

You're an idiot my dear friend because you have no idea what Borussia Dortmund went through in the last decade. You look at the present like its all that matters and can't get the simple fact that less than 10 years ago this club was going to dissapear. But a great group of people appeared and they had a plan to rescue BVB. They had to build everything from scratch and you can't realise they managed to make it to the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE final with a squad that cost us 52 MILLION EUROS! THAT IS ONE JAVI MARTINEZ + 12 MILLIONS, Do you f*cking get it now?! We built a team out of thin air. Created so many talents and it was also about luck and faith. Those things dont happen on regular basis, more, those things dont EVER happen! Yet we did it.

So dont you dare f*cking tell me my club can't call what has happened in the last few years a fairytale because that is what it was for us. You might not understand it because you are are clearly a blind Bayern fan who is unable of looking at something from different perspective. Those things dont happen, that kind of stories dont happen yet we made it happen because this club is special.

Only a fan of the club can judge whether something was or wasnt a fairytale for them. Im with this team since 2006/2007 and I say it was a fairytale. Dortmund's bottom is bankrupcy, what was the biggest bottom of Bayern? Playing in UEFA Cup? That must have been so tragic for your club :roll:

Dortmund experienced real problems, not your "first world" ones. So dont state your opinions about topics you know nothing about or can't even begin to understand.

Im not going to write anything else about this again. You may think what you want and write what you want, I dont f*cking care. Your posts are not worth commenting yet I made this bigass post just for you. Take it as a compliment.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby SouthernStar » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:08 am

I did warn that the BVB fans won't like it, didn't I?

The reason why I put this article up is because it's form a Dusseldorf paper, referred to me by a Vfb Stuttgart fan - they don't hold any love for us either, there's no reason why should they defend Bayern or attack BVB. Which is why I feel that this is pretty much as neutral as it can gets regarding an opinion from a neutral in Germany (not some of the crap I had been reading regarding BVB from the international media, they probably had not written a BVB article before March!!!). You can disagree with the writer and I don't mind that at all.

And as Bazi said, some understanding (since you don't like the word sympathy) need to be given to the upper brass in BVB... because despite all the success and prestige BVB had earned in the past 3 years (plus a ton of money this season), some of your players are still wanting to leave and if it happens to our club (which if you probably didn't know, was a case for us too until recent years). Considering BVB's current situation, why would the players do that? You can always argue about the money or your wages policy, but you guys are quite stacked now and is in the position to continuously challenge the later stages of the CL.

Also Borusse, I can GUARANTEE you that most of us here regard BVB as a very strong team and that for Sahin and Kagawa to leave "for better pastures" is a very, very stupid. Because heck, you can't name any team that is stronger than BVB this season. In fact, it was a very close tie between BVB and us Bayern for that title. The Bundesliga table is not a clear indicator of the gap between our team's strength, every freaking time we faced BVB, it was a real hard, heck of a match. You BVB fans know it, we Bayern fans know it and the German fans know it.

Which brings to the point that the article touched upon... why the "underdog" tag? IF a team beats the other 5-2 and won 5(!) of all the matches for the past 2 years, drew 2x and only lost narrowly on 2 games this season (discounting the CL final) can be considered an underdog (sporting teams of course) to the other team?! It was a very tight race til the end, you know it and we know it, but you know who don't? The rest of the world outside Germany apparently don't. And guess what?! They bought all of it.

I can relate as to why you think "echte liebe" is true, because I feel that you fans hold it very dear in your hearts, the very few BVB fans I've seen are very, very bloody passionate. Even I think your management team - Watzke, Zorc, even... Kloppo. No freaking doubt about it. But the article mentioned what it meant in context to the players, which I guess regarding this aspect is best left to you BVB fans to explain then. You can also argue that we slap the "mia san mia" around too much ourselves. I admit that our locker room situation is not as rosy of course (even this season under Jupp), but then we'll say that our "mia san mia" is not supposed to mean the same thing to your "echte liebe". Barca's "mes que un club" is probably more similar to ours.

As for your fairytale run, maybe you feel that way because you started supporting BVB since 2006 and this is probably a "fairytale season" for you and for a lot of the BVB fans. But then again, I know a Polish guy who had been a BVB fan since 1995 and he told me that yes, while this is season's CL run is better than the season when BVB won the CL in 1997, this should NOT be labelled a fairytale. Why? Because it is something that with the standard of football the BVB team displayed in the past 3 years should be a very realistic goal. You don't hear us Bayern fans saying that our treble season is a fairytale because the team has the capability to do that.

So basically the point of the article revolves around the idea that BVB were blowing their identities to a blown-up proportion during the weeks leading up to the CL final. But even some of the (non-Bayern) in Germany feel differently and they know better to label BVB as an underdog to Bayern, an idea that they want to lovingly portray to the world. Maybe it's regarded as a fairytale run, or a Robin Hood affair, but there's a difference between stating the truth (which yes, is also true) and blowing them out of proportion. The international media like your idea around the matter, took the bait and in the meantime, find a very convenient villain - which let's face it, Watzke wants us to be portrayed as the big bad wolf, especially after the Gotze affair. The whole idea is romantic, the world loves it and believes it for the truth. But when you dig deeper, you know that it's not that simple after all... and thus brings up the idea that this is just some effective marketing campaign.

The whole idea is not to piss off you BVB fans, but the whole "fairytale" campaign is quite bloody... "convenient" to say the least. So a neutral's view (who actually understands BVB and the Bundesliga) about it can shed a better light regarding the situation.

And of course, a BIG THANK YOU to Commodore for translating the whole(!) :shock: article when I only asked for key points :oops:. Hats off to you sir!
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby SouthernStar » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:55 am

Ok I'll write this here in case it gets lost in the big post above.

The article was not to vilify BVB or make us Bayern fans feel better about ourseleves or portray the "they call us a villain, but look at yourself in the mirror" kind of game.

Nor do I want any of the BVB resident forumnites here feel uncomfortable.

Would've probably not post this if my Stuttgarter friend was to translate this for me, but he can't since he's trekking in Cambodia atm :) and the article provides a fresh breath of a neutral's opinion that actually knows BVB and the Bundesliga, unlike the wankfest the international media got on about.

At the end of the day, like a lot of discussion topics here in the forum, this article is an opinion of the writer. Some of us here have our own opinion on the matter, you will disagree but we should all respect each other's opinion even if they conflict with ours :)
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby ballackfcb » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:50 am

We will see what Bayern and Dortmund win in the coming season :wink:
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:09 am

Hummels on SportBild about Gotze's departure:

- I cant understand it and I told him that. Mario suprised everyone at the club. Someone leaving never was such a big issue here. Everyone had a chance to see how good team we were. I really think there were almost no reasons to leave us judging our sporting level. We are developing fast and Mario was an important part of the team. It really annoyed me that he decided to leave us so soon.

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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby AdepT » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:27 am

You can try and try my friend but you will never ever reach that afro. :P
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bazi » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:45 am

There is a simple reason why the author is not objective SouthernStar.

He's a Borussia Mönchengladbach fan and didn't like the way Dortmund snatched Reus away from them. It's not about liking the article or not.

He just doesn't deliver his argument convincingly enough and stays too superficial. He sure doesn't lack knowledge.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby quaazi » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:12 am

Your posts are not worth commenting yet I made this bigass post just for you. Take it as a compliment.


and they say Bayern fans are arrogant! :lol:
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby tflags » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:25 pm

Borusse wrote:being very, very poor losers.


"FC China" anyone?
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Commodore » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:56 pm

Hey Borusse,

i'm about to start crying over the real, third world problems the publicly traded company you are a fan of is having. You are supporting them since 2006, which is an unbiased fact (and I'm not going to play the "you're not a real fan, because..." card), and you haven't even experienced these problems first hand. You've only heard about them. "Once upon a time..." No wonder you are buying into this fairytale brabble.

I was born in Germany, I live in Germany, I am German and I'm following Bundesliga football for a good 30 years now. Again, I'm not claiming to be a "realer" fan than you because of that, but please man. Don't tell me I don't know BVB (or Werder Bremen, or 1.FC Köln, or f*cking SV Waldhof Mannheim (whom you have probably never even heard of)) as good as or better than you.

When I was young (and I mean shitting my diapers and drooling all over myself young) Bayern wasn't in such a good shape financially either. Our club had brought this upon themselves through bad management. Being in so much debt just three years after we had won the last of three back-to-back European Cups was anything but necessary. Uli Hoeneß took the reins of the club in 1979 and built us into the powerhouse we are today. Do we see any similarities? Dortmund had pretty much a golden age in the mid-late 90s, winning back-to-back Bundesliga titles and topping it off with a Champions League in 1997. Six years later they were in shambles, staying afloat not least because an interest free 2 Million Euros loan from us. In 2005 they were all but dead. They, too, had brought this upon themselves, dude. They had tried their hardest to utterly and irreversibly trainwreck the whole club. The new management have done a remarkable job since, rebuilding the club.

So yeah, don't tell me about your real third world problems please, and don't act like Bayern have never endured any hardships of their own. How about this one: How about having to wear a f*cking swastika on your shirt when your entire club is very much opposed to the Nazi regime and your coach and President, who are both jewish, have to flee the country in fear of their lives and live in exile in Switzerland? Does that count as a "real" problem for you, and are we allowed now into the exclusive "having had real problems" club that BVB is apparently so proud of being a member of?

There are still a few differences between BVB and Bayern. We never belittled ourselves by denying that it was ourselves (but some magical fairytale BS) who dug us out of our financial hardships and back into European glory. And we also never vilified anyone else, acting like the Robin Hood of the Football world.

And while we're at it. If you really want to be the Robin Hood of the Bundesliga, how about you start doing your duty first and you send the Sheriff of Hoppingham packing and back to where they belong? But you weren't even capable of doing that. You lost to them at home, and now this plastic club spends another year in the Bundesliga. Thanks for nothing, Robby!
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:33 pm

Commodore wrote:And while we're at it. If you really want to be the Robin Hood of the Bundesliga, how about you start doing your duty first and you send the Sheriff of Hoppingham packing and back to where they belong? But you weren't even capable of doing that. You lost to them at home, and now this plastic club spends another year in the Bundesliga. Thanks for nothing, Robby!


For this I can say Im very sorry because I also hate Hoppenheim. We also had problems when playing with them.

As I stated before, I won't comment the rest because I simply disagree with almost everything that you're saying, for me its pure bullshit. You taking away Dortmund's right to call going to CL final a "fairytale" is just ridicoulous and I dont think you will ever change your twisted thinking.

It doesnt matter how long you watch Bundesliga, what matters is for how long you're a Dortmund fan. Your count is zero years, zero months and zero seconds. Mine is about 7 years, I talk not only from my mind but also from my heart. You only use your head thats why you cant understand certain things about my club and why we call it a fairtale and we do it rightfully so.

Therefore Im not gonna waste my time trying to convince you that you're wrong.

Cheers.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Firefox1234 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:05 pm

@caughtoffside: Shakhtar CEO Sergei Palkin confirmed a €30m offer from Borussia Dortmund for Henrikh Mkhitaryan. #BVB #LFC
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bazi » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:
@caughtoffside: Shakhtar CEO Sergei Palkin confirmed a €30m offer from Borussia Dortmund for Henrikh Mkhitaryan. #BVB #LFC


Edit: I just read that Dortmund offered $ 30m not € 30m whereas Donezk want € 30m for the player.(original source: http://donbass.ua/news/sports/2013/06/2 ... -evro.html)

Yeah and the player was seen in London, as was Liverpool's CEO (or sporting director, I forgot).

I think he's joining Liverpool...though maybe watzke is finishing the transfers of de Bruyne and the Armanian dude in one go? :lol: :wink:
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby MoFattal » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:30 pm

He's an amazing CAM/CF.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby YlonenXabi » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:02 pm

I'm not his biggest fan cause I hate his attitude out of the pitch but I think Tevez could have been a good transfer for Dortmund. I guess he has an astronomical salary but Juventus payed for him less than 10M !! :o
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