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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:10 pm

Well, all jokes aside, we only sold one starting player and one 3rd choice defender. The rest are players that rarely made it into the starting eleven or players who were on loans. So it might seem bad we sold about 8-9 players but in fact we sold only 3 valuable ones - Gotze, Santana and maybe Leitner. We replaced Santana with Sokratis.

tflags - we will definitely keep rest of our stars, I am quite sure about that. Maaaybe Lewandowski will go but I dont think so.

Mo - I know you were joking but just to put it out there - we need one more defender, 1 additional striker and 2 attacking midfielders, 3 if possible. So 4 or 5 players.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:15 pm

Was Leitner sold or loaned?
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:26 pm

Loaned for two years.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby AdepT » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:27 pm

2 year loan. Bittencourt was sold with a buy-back clause.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby SouthernStar » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:49 pm

"Die schwarz-gelbe Scheinheiligkeit des BVB"
http://www.rp-online.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/die-schwarz-gelbe-scheinheiligkeit-des-bvb-1.3470462

(Yeap, take it as you will... this article will anger lots of BVB's fans, but a Stuttgarter send this my way... so...)

Can anyone translate the key points of this article (pretty please)?! [-o< [-o< [-o< (I think I got the basic gist with translator but that tool is pretty bad sometimes and distorts the real meaning :x)

I've been trying to find comments/articles of BVB's "#fairytale" and "echte liebe" campaigns from the more neutral German media (this one's Dusseldorf-based). The international media's articles about the topic are stupid, they probably did not know about BVB til April, more or less qualified to write about them :evil: (Not to mention the Lewandowski's BVB kits I've been seeing a lot nowadays lol :lol: :lol: :lol:)
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Commodore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:22 pm

That's what you get when you spend the arguably three most successful years of your club painting a picture of yourself in the public as the eternal underdog struggling against the giants (or James Bond Villains) of the football world. Who the f*ck wants to play for a club like that?

@SouthernStar: I'll check out the article in a second, and will translate it.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Commodore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:25 pm

Oh, wow. FU, SouthernStar. That's a long one. :D

But apparently in the same vein as my post above.

I'll see what I can do.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Commodore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:38 pm

Alright. Here we go. :D


The Black-Yellow Hypocrisy of the BVB

The Lewandowski case shows: The fairytale-like years are over at Borussia Dortmund. Too rough is the reality. The BVB does not succeed anymore at positioning themselves as the humble counterpart to Bayern München. Thereby they are revealing a high level of hypocrisy. A commentary.

Paris, the city of love, is nothing in comparison. In Dortmund they are living the "echte Liebe" [true love] everywhere and permanently, they paint it on walls, wear it on T-Shirts, preach it in dialogues while having a beer at the pub. Love isn't red in Dortmund, but black-yellow. That's tremendously romantic. Nothing can be said against romanticism in football, for as long as cold calculation is the alternative. - and for as long as the romanticism is lived out of conviction.

Carried Away by Klopp-Football

Borussia Dortmund have positioned themselves for more than two years as the romantic counterpart to the starkly possessed by having to be successful FC Bayern; as the "Good Guys". In 2011, the team won the Deutsche Meisterschaft, having an average age of 23 years. In 2012 the BVB won The Double, of course aged one year. You had to hammer yourself badly with Weissbier or tighten the suspenders of your Lederhosen a lot, to not get carried away at least a bit by the football of the Klopp-Eleven. [i.e. you had to be the most narrow minded Bayern fan]

If you look at those two years as a whole, then negative headlines seem to have dripped off of the Borussia - indifferent of Sahin's transfer to Real, Injury problems in both years, or Klopp's hissy fits. Sahin came back after an unhappy time with Real and Liverpool FC. That Shinji Kagawa and Mario Götze were out for long stretches was not mirrored in the results. And Klopp is simply an emotional loudmouth; his baseballcap authentic.

D-Day 23rd April 2013

They have built themselves a black-yellow cosmos at the BVB, in which the solidarity between the "Boys" stood, and stands, above it all. Part of this recipe, however, is a high level of resistance against criticism, of whitewashery, of not-letting-problems-get-to-you-so-much.

"After years of binge-spending, it is, of all things, Borussia Dortmund who are showing that in pro-football it is not always money that counts." wrote magazine "Der Spiegel" in the beginning of 2011. "But the attempt to overrule the laws of the business should not work out for very much longer." It ended up working out for far longer than the author of that article had had in mind, surely.

But at the very least since the 23rd of April 2013 BVB is firmly brought back down to earth of cold hard business. On this day it was leaked that Mario Götze would pull his release clause and would transfer for 37 Million Euros to FC Bayern. Pretty unromantic.

Klopp Appeases

Storms of outrage generally have a shorter half-life than they did formerly. This is not a Dortmund phenomenon. Still it is remarkable how resolutely Götze was excluded from the circle of "echte Liebhaber" [real lovers]. The shitstorm in the internet reached epic proportions, made contemplative with regard to decency, civility, dignity. On the Südtribüne [the huge-ass "Yellow Wall" Terrace in Dortmund's Westfalenstadion] the new-Bayer was told unmistakably to "**** Off Götze".

At least - or maybe: Of all people - Jürgen Klopp remained cool headed at the press conference immediately after the annunciation of the transfer, and reminded himself of not even one-and-a-half years ago. "All who are angry, may be told: Last year we signed Marco Reus for a fixed release clause of 17 Million. I'm sure they weren't exactly celebrating that in Mönchengladbach either." It happens rarely that a Dortmunder himself meets hypocrisy with blasphemy.

In the current farce regarding Robert Lewandowski you need a better memory, to dig up a similar case. The Pole wants a transfer, to FC Bayern, now, despite his contract that's running til 2014. There supposedly has been a verbal promise of the BVB for that.

[I'm about half way through. I'll finish this tonight, but I'll need a quick break. I might as well post this first part now, though.]
Last edited by Commodore on Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Commodore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:15 pm

[I had forgotten the last sentence of the last paragraph above. Mainly because it is pretty much the same sentence again, just with a different player. So, let's start with the last paragraph in this 2nd part.]

In the current farce regarding Robert Lewandowski you need a better memory, to dig up a similar case. The Pole wants a transfer, to FC Bayern, now, despite his contract that's running til 2014. There supposedly has been a verbal promise of the BVB for that. 18 years ago, Mönchengladbach's striker Heiko Herrlich wanted to transfer, too, to Borussia Dortmund, now, despite his contract that was running until 1997. There supposedly had been a verbal promise of the VfL for that.

The Good Guys in the Circus of Polarization

If you take into account that the causa Herrlich ended up before the labour court, and that an agreement could only be reached through mediation of the DFB, then there is still a surprising amount of potential in the case of Lewandowski. And yet the topic is making the headlines for a very long time already. "It was worth it." Herrlich summed up in 1995 on the day of his first training at BVB. "Maybe some people will now think first, before breaking a promise."

The "Stuttgarter Zeitung" now reported that there even was a written agreement to Lewandowski that he could transfer right now for an appropriate sum. Dortmund denies that.

For almost two years they were the good guys in the circus of polarization called Bundesliga, the Harry Potters in their fight against Lord Voldemort. The farce surrounding Lewandowski now awards Bayern, of all clubs, sympathy-points, because they are sitting back smartly and they let the things take their course. The Treble winners would take Lewandowski now already, even for a considerable fee. But Bayern could live with it perfectly well to wait for a year longer.

Watzke in a Hot-Air Balloon

In search for BVB-FCB analogies you cannot pass by Dortmund's CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke. Contrary to his former counterpart at FC Bayern, former CEO Uli Hoeneß, the 53 year old does not drive a populism-bulldozer. Rather Watzke is sitting in a hot-air balloon and is dropping carefully measured little baggies of populism. This doesn't draw as much negative attention [as it did with Hoeneß] in the eyes of the populace, but the effect is similar.

But the hypocrisy of the BVB reveals itself not only in dealings with transfer happy players, who believe the "echte Liebe" to be what it is - a marketing slogan. The advancement to the Champions League Final was cleverly furnished by the club with the hashtag #fairytale in the social networks. The only question remains: How much of a fairytale is it when a publicly traded company, which is aiming for a 250 MIllion Euros revenue this year, is successful internationally, too?

"Dortmunder Boys" From All Over Germany

The advancement against FC Malaga was ensured only after blatantly wrong calls by the officiating team. No problem. No one wanted to blame the Black-Yellows that they couldn't care less that they had gotten incredibly lucky. But the half-life of gratefulness and humility is small in Dortmund. On matchday 34, referee Jochen Drees, after long contemplation and consulting [his assistants], courageously reversed a call that had given Dortmund a last minute goal. Drees was lauded in the aftermath specifically for his courage. Klopp couldn't care less. He verbally attacked the referee fiercely.

Also, regarding youth development, Dortmund celebrate themselves gladly as counterparts to clubs who bank less on their own city and their own region. However, for the most part the only thing that unifies the "Dortmunder Boys" is [the geographical location of] the company headquarters of their employer. Of the core players in the past season, only the Magdeburger Marcel Schmelzer and Mario Götze managed the leap from [Dortmund's] own youth. The original Dortmunders Marco Reus and Kevin Großkreutz were weeded out early, and sent them to Ahlen in the provinces, from where they, partly over detours, found their way back. Reus' detour over Mönchengladbach cost the BVB 17 Million Euros.

And Mats Hummels?

Grown up in München, bought for 4 Million Euros from Bayern.

Sven Bender?

Allegedly without transfer fee traded for Antonio Rukavina with 1860 München. [Rukavina] today plays for Real Valladolid in Spain (best to remember for the next football quiz).

Ilkay Gündogan?

Bought* for 5.5 Million as Sahin successor from 1. FC Nürnberg, developed among others by VfL Bochum and SC Scheisse 05 [sorry, I don't speak that name].

Neven Subotic [the wanker]?

Brought with him by Jürgen Klopp from Mainz 05 for 4.5 Million.

[*he uses the German word "wegkaufen", which literally means something like "Buying away" or, less literally but more in the way it is meant, "strip-away buying", hugely implying a hostile act towards the other club and VERY often used when talking about Bayern buying players from other clubs. He uses the word deliberately here when talking about Dortmund to make the point that they are doing, too, what they are accusing others of.]

The Fairy Tale is Over

All this is part of the business. The way it works everywhere. In Dortmund, too. That the BVB don't paint a picture of themselves as trying to equal FC Bayern, but instead vehemently as an antithesis, has its roots in history, as well. The 14th of March 2005 could have heralded in the end of the BVB. Instead, at Düsseldorf Airport, a rehabilitation concept was was agreed upon, bankruptcy was avoided. "As fortunate as we were, we won't be a second time." Watzke says in hindsight.

BVB could care less about the sympathies of all non-black-yellows - even if the club should lose doubly in the Lewandowski case. One only wishes Watzke, Klopp, et al. that they know by now: The #fairytale is over. Everything else would be hypocritical again.
Last edited by Commodore on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby AdepT » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:48 pm

I pretty much got everything from Bing transalator. [source]


Thanks Commodore. It was nice to read a pure Eng version. =D>

I have been telling people the same thing when they were going like Dortmund are underdogs, they developed their so called team from scratch blah blah. Hypocrisy at its best is what I said. It's because of their own mishaps that they were almost close to bankruptcy. However, I'm all praise for them now because of how they've recovered. I certainly have no problems with how they run their club. They are as exemplary as ours.
Klopp is charismatic but much of the charisma he created in his pre-CL interview was wrongly done. Though I didn't find anything wrong in his 'Gotze transfer' interview.
To be true, I was a bit angry the way Dortmund representatives swayed away the public on their sides by presenting us as 'villains'. Heck! If it had been Chelsea/City/PSG, I wouldn't have minded it a bit. I am not sure if they realise that they failed to earn fans for themselves, rather, they earned us more enemies. A thing I rather enjoy. :P

Plus they are going to cross 300m this time around. Their brand value has increased. I think they realise it very well that in a 4-5 years from now they themselves are gonna buy someone for over 25-30m from some club otherwise what will they do with their money. So obviously their fans should come out of their slumber and look at their past and future, and then introspect.
Hopefully Borusse understands it. Be rational is what I say.

PS : I didn't get that '#fairytale' thing really to be honest. Malaga winning CL would have been a fairytale. The claim that Dortmund, winners of Buli 2011 & 2012 and Pokal winner 2012 after thrashing us 5-2, were underdogs is as far away from truth as Earth is from Progenitor of GRB 090429B. That is about 9.4 billion light years if the astronomers are to believed. :P
Last edited by AdepT on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:11 pm

AdepT wrote:PS : I didn't get that '#fairytale' thing really to be honest. Malaga winning CL would have been a fairytale. The claim that Dortmund, winners of Buli 2011 & 2012 and Pokal winner 2012 after thrashing us 5-2, were underdogs is as far from truth as Earth is from Progenitor of GRB 090429B. That is about 9.4 billion light years if the astronomers are to believed.

=D> =D>
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Commodore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:54 pm

Part II is up now. :)
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby MoFattal » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:53 pm

Much appreciated, Commodore :)
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Bazi » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:09 pm

I don't think the article is that great to be honest. The author doesn't get to the point with a lot of his arguments and stays pretty superficial.

A lot of hot air in my opinion.

Sure there are contradictions between Dortmund's self-portrayal and reality which is caused by their flamboyant marketing slogan for the most part but overall they are just a very well run football club which suffered a backstabbing wound from behind with the Götze transfer. Not to mention the lost CL final against the rival from Bavaria. They are under a lot of pressure to perform during this transfer period and some statements are a result of that pressure. Others prior to the CL final and after the Götze transfer were the result of being hurt by the unexpected "betrayal" (though they should have been prepared with the clause being in place as it was). Not to forget that they are in a completely different managing position than a couple of years ago. They just lack experience on the big money transfer stage so some of the statements are probably a result of that, too...
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Commodore » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:13 pm

Well, I never hated BVB. In fact I always kind of liked them. But in the recent past they have managed to REALLY piss me off with their embarrassing understatements all the time and victimizing themselves while villainizing us. Watzke is just a clown with his "no lunch" speech and all that.

That whole club started looking like a caricature with all this over the top "True Love" marketing. I mean, I think Bayern are overdoing the "Mia san Mia" a little bit, too. But #fairytale? Really? How small can you make yourself?
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