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Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby Roonzil » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:41 pm

I've stayed at the BVB team hotel last year. It's literally in the middle of nowhere, on a street with a few houses and lots of trees. If the bomb was placed in the night time, no one will have seen it, as there are no camera's anywhere.

The hotel itself is easily accessable, and you can just walk up to the team bus that's parked up front.

The view from my hotel room in the team hotel of Dortmund.

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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby RedQueen » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:45 pm

The bombs were placed in a hedge alongside the road, they weren't connected with the bus. So no use examining the bus.

I don't think it was football fans, either. There seems to be too much expertise involved in the making of the bombs.

Don't know whether anyone has read Tuchel's statements or the interview with Roman Bürki.. Nobody of them wanted to play or were really asked; Watzke and the UEFA made the decision over their heads. Our dear chancellor and De Maiziere were involved as well. Apparently called Watzke up and urged him to "put up a sign against terrorism". Easy to say if you aren't the one who has to play an important game under the eyes of millions.
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby #12 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:49 pm

True... But Watzke has a free will, too... I mean, we all know Dortmund take pleasure in the victim role... Not like what happened isn't horrible, not like I also think another fixture would've been better... But Warzke has his role in this game, too...

This is one of the cases where video footage might really be helpful... Which is why I am a HUGE supporter of surveillance in public places... Anyone arguing with privacy in those cases is just an idiot IMHO...
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby aterford » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:14 pm

RedQueen wrote:The bombs were placed in a hedge alongside the road, they weren't connected with the bus. So no use examining the bus.

I don't think it was football fans, either. There seems to be too much expertise involved in the making of the bombs.

Don't know whether anyone has read Tuchel's statements or the interview with Roman Bürki.. Nobody of them wanted to play or were really asked; Watzke and the UEFA made the decision over their heads. Our dear chancellor and De Maiziere were involved as well. Apparently called Watzke up and urged him to "put up a sign against terrorism". Easy to say if you aren't the one who has to play an important game under the eyes of millions.



Yeah, I read a quote from Watzke a day or two ago and he said something to the effect of "we were considering withdrawing from the UCL for our players' sake but we felt that not playing would be 'giving the perpetrators a victory'" (paraphrase)
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby #12 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:22 pm

Oh yeah, also they were giving a whistling concert when Watzke felt the necessity to tell them we were playing Real on 8.45 and that they had to play earlier... But yeah, in hindsight those 80.000 people all knew as well and didn't want their team to play the next day... Oh the hypocrisy

Also... While I find the criticism towards the politicians justified, it is again a case where a change of perspective helps... They had a point, too...
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby RedQueen » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:33 pm

They had a point but I think at the end of the day, it should be up to those who have to go through the ordeal to decide whether they feel ready to "put up a sign against terrorism" - not UEFA executives, club CEOs or politicians who decide from their armchairs over the players' and Tuchel's head.
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby #12 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:29 pm

Yes

But in all this disgust and outrage Mr Watzke isn't getting his fair share of it - even Tuchel acting like Watzke had nothing to do with it... He is there to act in the interest of his club, he's closest to the team, he could've said no...
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby RedQueen » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:50 pm

Tuchel's not gonna throw his boss under the bus publicly, especially after all the reports about "atmospheric disturbances" between them. But I'm pretty sure this hasn't increased the likelihood of Tuchel extending his contract at Dortmund, or maybe even staying beyond this season.
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby #12 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:55 pm

Ok you have a point...

I just hate their mob mentality... The moment one of the bosses says something the whole flock agrees magically...
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby RedQueen » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:15 pm

I've seen a lot of criticism of Watze's role in this situation in German Dortmund forums. Personally I'm most annoyed that Merkel once again had to stick her nose into an affair that's really none of her business (at the point she and De Maiziere intervened it wasn't even clear whether it was a hooligan attack); for the umpteenth time her only concern are the imminent elections.
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby #12 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:24 pm

Erm... It's not even clear now...
Yet we also had people here telling me how likely it was to predict lottery numbers, remember?
I don't know if it's "only" elections... Seems to be the main drive though, I agree... But you gotta admit polemics towards her makes those actions comprehensible... She has done many things wrong... But the way she's attacked by people that have zero knowledge of even their own constitution, disgusting agitation and plain lying - "damage control" is in order... Or do you (you seem to be well educated and intelligent...) think - with al necessities to politics taking action(s) - more protest voters in the AfD camp would help anyone (except AfD)?

DeMazière is a different thing IMHO: this is clearly his turf...
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby RedQueen » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:54 pm

I think we can exclude hoolingans, how would your ordinary hooligan get hold of a military detonator?

This isn't about the AfD specifically, it's just about not losing votes to anyone. She's done it before - remember her u-turn in nuclear policy when the Fukushima catastrophe happened? That was all about not losing Baden-Württemberg to the Greens, and she conveniently ignored that she had no right to make such a decision without a mandate of the parliament. She simply turned up in front of the TV cameras, with Röttgen in tow, and announced that she has decided the premature shutdown of seven or eight nuclear power plants. As if this were the GDR.

In a similar fashion, the Kanzleramt put pressure on the Deutsche Bahn supervisory board to rubber-stamp the Stuttgart 21 project even though it had exceeded all previously agreed cost limits - according to reports it was Merkel personally behind it, on the grounds that it was "alternativlos" and the end of Europe as we know it if that project doesn't go ahead. It's a project of Deutsche Bahn and the state Baden-Württemberg - the federal government has nothing to do with the underground train station, and the highspeed railroad connected with it was never under debate. Her only motivation was that she personally didn't want to suffer a defeat, because she had made that project a priority before (again, the matter doesn't concern her at all and it was all solely about her struggle with the Baden-Württemberg Green party). Costs, the traffic situation, the sheer idiocy of the entire project didn't matter.

And it's the same here. The decision whether or not Dortmund's player should play that game is absolutely none of her business (nor is it De Maiziere's). She's simply afraid of losing voters as a result of an increasing fear of terrorist attacks, and hence the well-being of the players be damned, that game had to be played.
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:25 pm

RedQueen wrote:I think we can exclude hoolingans, how would your ordinary hooligan get hold of a military detonator?

This isn't about the AfD specifically, it's just about not losing votes to anyone. She's done it before - remember her u-turn in nuclear policy when the Fukushima catastrophe happened? That was all about not losing Baden-Württemberg to the Greens, and she conveniently ignored that she had no right to make such a decision without a mandate of the parliament. She simply turned up in front of the TV cameras, with Röttgen in tow, and announced that she has decided the premature shutdown of seven or eight nuclear power plants. As if this were the GDR.

In a similar fashion, the Kanzleramt put pressure on the Deutsche Bahn supervisory board to rubber-stamp the Stuttgart 21 project even though it had exceeded all previously agreed cost limit - according to reports it was Merkel personally behind it, on the grounds that it was "alternativlos" and the end of Europe as we know it if that project doesn't go ahead. It's a project of Deutsche Bahn and the state Baden-Württemberg - the federal government has nothing to do with the train station, and the highspeed railroad connected with it was never under debate. Her only motivation was that she personally didn't want to suffer a defeat, because she had made that project a priority before (again, the matter doesn't concern her at all and it was all solely about her struggle with the Baden-Württemberg Green party. Costs, the traffic situation, the sheer idiocy of the entire project didn't matter.

And it's the same here. The decision whether or not Dortmund's player should play that game is absolutely none of her business (nor is it De Maiziere's). She's simply afraid of losing voters as a result of an increasing fear of terrorist attacks, and hence the well-being of the players be damned, that game had to be played.

The more I read from red queen the less I suspect that it was an islamic terrorist group.
But to think of it , had it been something done by an extreme group from either left or right , her ideal move was to declare who it was,no?


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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby #12 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:26 pm

Erm... I think given the right (or rather wrong) security measures, about every Bundeswehr member can somehow get hold of these explosives... I wouldn't exclude anything, but I'll give you that it's the option least likely...
Agree on your points put forth towards Merkel... THAT is actually what I call legit criticism and not mere polemics! She's displaying that "Schlingerkurs" in political relations as well...

BUT: neither she nor deMazière decided... Pressure? Well maybe in a way... But hence my remark towards deMazière's turf... I don't know your source, and I don't know the extent of this "pressure" - but I think it's legit he put forth his interest in the game taking place... (all the while me thinking another date would've been better...)
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Re: Bomb blast reported by BvB bus, Bartra injured

Postby RedQueen » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:34 pm

ramsej84 wrote:The more I read from red queen the less I suspect that it was an islamic terrorist group.
But to think of it , had it been something done by an extreme group from either left or right , her ideal move was to declare who it was,no?

That's assuming she knows who it was - I don't think she does.
#12 wrote:Erm... I think given the right (or rather wrong) security measures, about every Bundeswehr member can somehow get hold of these explosives...

I didn't mean the explosives but the ignitor. One of the investigators said it was a type that is very difficult to obtain and hence they considered a foreign intelligence service as a possible culprit. That led me to believe that an ordinary Bundeswehr soldier would not be able to get hold of such a device.
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