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The German Question

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The German Question

Postby tflags » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:32 pm

Jorge wrote:
tflags wrote: LOL. Somehow Jorge managed to avoid the Gotze thread altogether.


I guess I did. I do not have a clue about what you are talking about since unfortunately I do not spend much time in the forum anymore.
At the end of the day I just provided a general statement that you can apply to any particular discussion about German and non-German players, it could be Gotze, Thiago or Andreas Ottl. I feel like this forum is so polarized that you are in one camp or the other and there is no middle ground and common sense anymore.


If you are under the impression German players get the same treatment (in this forum) as non-German ones AND/OR you are under the impression Thiago got the same treatment as Gotze then we will continue to have a conflicting point of view.

Now you said 'new fans' believe 'German character' is less important. By that I guess you mean I am a 'new fan' (having no clue as to when I started following the team) and 'we' think German character is less important. I couldn't be prouder/happy/interested/admired about a team winning by their own home grown talent, whether it comes from Bilbao, Wales/Swansea, Barcelona or Munich; more or less the teams with the more (or less) known use of local talent. I love football, and being lucky enough to have home grown talent is simply priceless.

But when you are under the impression that overstretches to avoiding certain players because the locals are better (Gotze vs Neymar as the more palpable example) that's when I think this principle gets disorted and does the team actual harm rather then good.

You also just said Thiago is slowly being accepted and you compared him to other players before him. Looks like you haven't been reading this forum at all. Game in and out we have people criticing him in this forum while the outside world is doing exactly the opposite. And yes, I find it anoying.
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Re: The German Question

Postby MUTU » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:33 pm

You only find it annoying because he's your favourite player. He doesn't get anywhere close to the abuse that Alonso gets before, during and after matches.

This is a forum, and believe it or not some people have opinions that may or may not differ to yours and while sometimes it may admittedly be frustrating (been there during the whole Gomez saga) you just have to be tolerant.

Let me tell you what *I* hate: it's the attitude to stir up trouble during times when we should be clinking the beer mugs. Let's just celebrate the moment without the fights.

Do some people take it overboard? Yes, but then sometimes it's counteracted by others who take it overboard in the different direction. RIP middle ground.
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Re: The German Question

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:58 pm

*I* hate beet. :D

There's some bias against Thiago by some members who just want to see him fail god knows why.

People's opinion lately are very unstable in general. A few bad weeks and everything changes. People need to chill down and remember the long term and not just what happened two hours ago. Lots of knee-jerk reactions. When this is negative, it's mostly against the newer foreign players (Thiago, Coman, Costa). But there is also some positive overreaction to German performances (Kimmich, Rode).

As I said, we need to calm down, appreciate the players who show lots of commitment to the club, and look at the long term picture when talking about players' worth.

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Re: The German Question

Postby JANCKER » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:27 pm

Gotze is the best German footballer - Figo [source]


Just to be clear, I wanted him gone... but see that not everyone is of the same opinion.

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Re: The German Question

Postby kod2600 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:36 pm

I can summarize the whole issue with one saying:

"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one but they think each others stink."

This is a forum after all and almost everyone comes from a different background in terms of being a football fan. I'm literally the only one in the middle east that likes Badstuber and I always comment on facebook about how I like him, I get negative replies but I just walk away.

We all should learn to listen and just accept that people have opinions and convictions just like you do. If we both saw an apple and a guy said it's an orange I'll just tell him it's not and stop right there. LEARN TO STOP RIGHT THERE.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Bentonomo » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:54 am

People can have diferent favorite players. After all its a german club.
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Re: The German Question

Postby tflags » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:32 am

MUTU wrote:You only find it annoying because he's your favourite player.


I will make you a bet MUTU, because from the years in this forum i've noticed non-Germans tend to enjoy less respect than their German counterparts.

I bet you a German coach with three consecutive titles and two pokals - no champions league title but decent runs - who gets called a "cocroach" here for no apparent good reason and after insiatable criticism will earn whoever posts the insult at least a temporary ban.

If you can wholeheartedly say you don't think that is the case; then I'll leave your forum without further criticism and I will retire my previous comments.
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Re: The German Question

Postby JANCKER » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:48 am

Did anyone call you 'cockroach'? Stop calling people out with intent to provoke to just victimize for no reason after.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:20 am

I just feel honored that a fellow forum member started a tread from something that I said :oops: .

In summary, I do not keep track of the array of opinions when it comes to players preference so I doubt that I ever got involved in a Gotze/ Thiago controversy. If I have to look at it in retrospective, yes Gotze was regarded as the future of the German football when he broke through at Dortmund, more than members of this forum this idea floated around in the German media, was endorsed by most pundits, validated by coaches and players and the consensus was so general that makes me believe that it influenced this forum. Along these lines part of Bayern's history and tradition is to attract the German talent and Gotze at the time perfectly fit the mold, true he was not a Bayern youth product but being born in Bavaria is another connection to Bayern's tradition of recruiting local talent.

Now let's move to Thiago. He arrived in Munich with zero connections to Bayern except the coach who for the most part was a divisive figure and many felt he was not going to last beyond his contract and it was not unreasonable to think that he was going to follow the coach at one point or go in a different direction unless he grew roots in Munich. Add to this that Thiago was a bench player in Barcelona while Gotze was a rising star in the Bundesliga. Gotze being a year younger was already established in the German senior NT while Thiago with a history in the Spanish youth squads had been seldom called to the senior team.

But football stories untangled in many different ways, in less than 3 years Thiago is a much better player than Gotze, Thiago is still in Munich and seems adapted in the Post Guardiola era, Gotze is gone and at the end he will never be remembered as a Bayern player while Thiago is making history each day.

Are forum members biased for German players? Yes, no doubt. Bayern is a German club with a long tradition of Bavarian and German identity. I am sure that Barca fans are even more biased to Catalonians because obvious political reasons, and although Thiago was born in Italy he grew up in Barcelona and will be welcome back at any time as one of their owns if he decides so.

My personal opinion is that accepting German or Bavarian players quicker than non German players is a natural thing and not necessarily a bad thing, if it was the other way around we will become quicker the GSP and Manchester City that we refuse to become.
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Re: The German Question

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:17 am

I won't go into what forumers think or whether it's a good thing but don't you think the board itself is biased towards Germans?


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Re: The German Question

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:04 am

This is a German club and most of us started supporting Bayern by first falling in love with the German NT.
I started supporting the German NT during the italia 90..
Bayern came into my life four years later... I had never heard about them before...

Some of my favourite players were / are non Germans such as ; Kuffour Elber Ze,
Lucio MvBommel, Pizzarro , Makaay Ribery, Javi and Alaba...

I have whole heartedly both criticized and defended Goetze... Boateng, Neuer, and quite a lot our ex Kroos
In the past I had also criticized Robben and Lewa.

And yes I don't like Alonso playing all the time so what???



So what is this thead all about...?

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Re: The German Question

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:13 am

Honestly, its all over Europe.

In England, they will always support their brits moreso than foreign players. Especially, if they came out from the youth system. So, its not really unusual at all..

However, with that said, it's obvious that there is a bias against the Spanish/South americans. Especially, the kids pep brought in personally. Last season, after the lost to Madrid I pointed it out. Yet, people rejected the idea.....

Most criticized players are

Alonso
thiago
Bernat (even though he is a sub and doesnt play much)
Douglas Costa

Another factor is also playstyle and player attributes.

Like I said before, it's like girls... Some guys like fatties with duck faces, while others need some hot fit gym chick.
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Re: The German Question

Postby pyrasur » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:37 pm

It's still weird for me to think people support a club because of a national team. When I was younger in my head the national team was like a bonus or something.
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Re: The German Question

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:45 pm

But when I was young it was different... clubs were not very popular...

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Re: The German Question

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:56 pm

pyrasur wrote:It's still weird for me to think people support a club because of a national team. When I was younger in my head the national team was like a bonus or something.


Depends really. I got into Bayern through the world cup as well (and FIFA). The Bundesliga wasn't televised here at the time (and still isn't widespread nowadays) so I had no access to Bayern directly. I liked watching the German NT and found many of the same players with Bayern in FIFA. It probably also helped that Bayern was the only team I managed to beat my brother with so I kept using them :P In fact I only started watching games regularly about 5 years after becoming a Bayern fan due to accessibility, apart from the fact that I was very young anyway. However, I clearly remember always insisting I was a Bayern fan before that anyway, and I used to watch as many CL games as possible and eagerly await the newspaper report on Sunday to find out our result, and later used to follow Bayern through the online match reports on the website.


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