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The German Question

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Re: The German Question

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:09 am

Jorge wrote:BTW, you are right on the spot but a pre-2014 Kroos was already one of the best around, you can ask Jupp Heynckes, one of the best coaches around, just watch this compilation (although any 2015-2017 is even better):


He was indeed, the passing brain was most definitely always there, but he tended to play as a deep #10 so we didn't get to see as much of the intelligent conducting since that position allowed for a more executory role. Because of this, even until now we can still see him being compared with the likes Özil i.e. the lethargic final third pass-picker type. I feel there was also a youth factor back then of him wanting to move forward to drive the final ball, scoring or assisting. In Madrid he has fully embraced the dedicated conductor role, the role that fits his profile absolutely perfectly and his importance to the team has risen meteorically.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:16 am

Oh and in addition, he played in a much more direct system prior to Pep's arrival, so we can also see there in the 11-minute clip that the killer pass selections were only captured in moments over 5 years. What's incredible is, today, you can probably make a similar 11-minute highlight out of just 3 or 4 good Madrid games.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:22 am

Kroos is the CM version of Ozil.

Where did this Busquets-xavi hybrid come from.
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Re: The German Question

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:23 am

Ancelotti HAS built the team around Thiago. When he isn't around, the midfield just doesn't work. He, and not Xabi, is the one that sets our pace and makes.the game.

Also, not sure if Jorge meant to imply this, but Pep didn't build around Kroos. He built around Lahm. Lahm was the regista for us in 2013-2014. And yet, the whole midfield stopped working when Thiago was injured. That's when we became stale.

Also, comparing Kroos to Pirlo or Xabi is blasphemy. Those two are far 100x the players Kroos is. Busquets Is not a regista, he is a modern DM. Subtly different roles.

Thiago has not been given the role except in one or two matches, but anything Kroos can do, Thiago can do too.

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Re: The German Question

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:33 am

Put Cesc Fabregas in Madrid with a destroyer like Casimero and a b2b like Modric. In addition, 2 workhorses in Bale/Lucas and to an extent Benzema....

Watch Cesc Fabregas when they won the title a few seasons back. When Matic was still good and Oscar was destroying people with his pressing and tackling.

Than, look at Cesc when Oscar dropped in form and Matic started sucking.

This forum and their love for Kroos, KDB and Coutinho and claiming they are complete players.... Must be fun watching MOTD as reference.
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Re: The German Question

Postby JANCKER » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:36 am

Ancelotti is taking advantage of Muller's slump to implement his 3 men midfield thing, Pep would've done the same but it would've been too much from him to displace 3 German star internationals during his tenure... thank God that Muller is a fan favorite.

Kroos left because he was underappreciated... he should've given him the midfield keys.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:40 am

JANCKER wrote:Ancelotti is taking advantage of Muller's slump to implement his 3 men midfield thing, Pep would've done the same but it would've been too much from him to displace 3 German star internationals during his tenure... thank God that Muller is a fan favorite.

Kroos left because he was underappreciated... he should've given him the midfield keys.


Not really.

Thiago when he return from injury and before he got injured again, was a lot better than kroos ever was for pep. IF anything, Thiago was the best player for bayern in general during that span (but he got reinjured)
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Re: The German Question

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:44 am

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Kroos is the CM version of Ozil.

Where did this Busquets-xavi hybrid come from.


Again a myth said by people who typically watch very little football and play a lot of FIFA. Sounds like what the average Englishman would say.

Busqets' pass selection, Xavi's passing range. Covers a lot of ground and a brilliant off-the-ball presser too. He can't tackle for shit but he reads the game that he can tunnel opposing attackers to Casemiro or a defender who can make the tackle. Not nearly as lethargic as Özil.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Ancelotti HAS built the team around Thiago. When he isn't around, the midfield just doesn't work. He, and not Xabi, is the one that sets our pace and makes.the game.

Also, not sure if Jorge meant to imply this, but Pep didn't build around Kroos. He built around Lahm. Lahm was the regista for us in 2013-2014. And yet, the whole midfield stopped working when Thiago was injured. That's when we became stale.

Just because Thiago's executing the final ball doesn't mean it's built around him. He is indeed the only one in our team capable of doing things. Registas merely dictates who gets to do things. Kroos dictates in Real Madrid now. Back then, Thiago was merely a passing option for Lahm, although he probably has the best outlet out of all of Lahm's passing options.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Also, comparing Kroos to Pirlo or Xabi is blasphemy. Those two are far 100x the players Kroos is. Busquets Is not a regista, he is a modern DM. Subtly different roles.


You wouldn't be saying this if you watch him on a regular basis, trust me. He's already surpassed Pirlo. Also Busquets is clearly a regista to me, he dictates tempo, he decides who gets to do things and that's all it is. Defending-wise he's averagely just enough.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Kroos can do, Thiago can do too.


Technique-wise yes, there are things that Alonso can do that Boateng can do too. What Lahm can do to make him the best RB of all time, every single RB who has played football can do too. The difference is when and how you decide to do it.

Drawing from a very recent memory, Alonso's performance against Arsenal in the 2nd half. As far as passing technique goes, Thiago could've done all that, but he's in the final third working on the final ball while Alonso recovered the ball in the middle and sprayed it back forward. Meanwhile, Kroos does what Alonso did on an annoyingly regular basis.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:46 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
Thiagoalcantara wrote:Kroos is the CM version of Ozil.

Where did this Busquets-xavi hybrid come from.


Again a myth said by people who typically watch very little football and play a lot of FIFA. Sounds like what the average Englishman would say.

Busqets' pass selection, Xavi's passing range. Covers a lot of ground and a brilliant off-the-ball presser too. He can't tackle for shit but he reads the game that he can tunnel opposing attackers to Casemiro or a defender who can make the tackle. Not nearly as lethargic as Özil.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Ancelotti HAS built the team around Thiago. When he isn't around, the midfield just doesn't work. He, and not Xabi, is the one that sets our pace and makes.the game.


Also, not sure if Jorge meant to imply this, but Pep didn't build around Kroos. He built around Lahm. Lahm was the regista for us in 2013-2014. And yet, the whole midfield stopped working when Thiago was injured. That's when we became stale.
Just because Thiago's executing the final ball doesn't mean it's built around him. He is indeed the only one in our team capable of doing things. Registas merely dictates who gets to do things. Kroos dictates in Real Madrid now. Back then, Thiago was merely a passing option for Lahm, although he probably has the best outlet out of all of Lahm's passing options.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Also, comparing Kroos to Pirlo or Xabi is blasphemy. Those two are far 100x the players Kroos is. Busquets Is not a regista, he is a modern DM. Subtly different roles.


You wouldn't be saying this if you watch him on a regular basis, trust me. He's already surpassed Pirlo. Also Busquets is clearly a regista to me, he dictates tempo, he decides who gets to do things and that's all it is. Defending-wise he's averagely just enough.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Kroos can do, Thiago can do too.


Technique-wise yes, there are things that Alonso can do that Boateng can do too. What Lahm can do to make him the best RB of all time, every single RB who has played football can do too. The difference is when and how you decide to do it.

Drawing from a very recent memory, Alonso's performance against Arsenal in the 2nd half. As far as passing technique goes, Thiago could've done all that, but he's in the final third working on the final ball while Alonso recovered the ball in the middle and sprayed it back forward. Meanwhile, Kroos does what Alonso did on an annoyingly regular basis.


Except your from a nation that has no football.

Do you understand why JAMES/ISCO were dropped? OR why Zidane plays freakin LUCAS...

My gosh, you really didnt watch RM during his first season than if you think hes some hybrid player
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Re: The German Question

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:47 am

Love it when I get that reply, means the other guy arguing is grasping at straws. Inferiority complex to the maximum.
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Re: The German Question

Postby JANCKER » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:51 am

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Except your from a nation that has no football.


That is the beauty of football... it doesn't matter.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:54 am

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Might gosh, you really didnt watch RM during his first season than if you think hes some hybrid player


I did, which is why I keep saying to forget everything up to 2014. Since the turn of that year he has improved ridiculously, you'd know that if you watch some stuff but it seems like you're the one who ceased to watch football after that.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:55 am

Thiagoalcantara wrote:Except your from a nation that has no football.


Does this win an argument?
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:59 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:Love it when I get that reply, means the other guy arguing is grasping at straws. Inferiority complex to the maximum.


Frankly I quit already. After I read that Ancelotti already built a team around Thiago my vision started to blur. Maybe that's the reason why we need those 90th minute lucky strikes to beat the likes of Ingolstadt.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:01 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
Thiagoalcantara wrote:Might gosh, you really didnt watch RM during his first season than if you think hes some hybrid player


I did, which is why I keep saying to forget everything up to 2014. Since the turn of that year he has improved ridiculously, you'd know that if you watch some stuff but it seems like you're the one who ceased to watch football after that.


2014? You forget the RAFA ERA and even this season where RM was expose so much in Europe.

WHERE EVERY MADRID FAN wanted KROOS GONE.

If Kroos is as good as you say reading the game defensively and pressing, etc

WHY DA FUQ would Zidane play Casimero and Lucas, when he had Bale, James, Kovaic and Isco?
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