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The German Question

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.
 

Re: The German Question

Postby tflags » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:10 pm

#12 wrote:You mean positive bias?
Cause if you ask me, most of the pro-German bias on this forum seems to come from non-Germans...


I didn't say Germans. Quite on the contrary, most Germans that I talk to usually down talk other Germans (when they come from other regions.) Yes, non-Germans (in the forum) tend to be biased towards German players (andfor some reason South Americans should follow Barcelona.)

Then again, that's just my point of view.
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Re: The German Question

Postby tflags » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:13 pm

ottackon wrote:Vos sujets de discussion sont d'un ennui mortel.


Well, you could open a thread to express your subjects of interest. I'm sure discussing the fact that 20 million Mexicans are washing dishes in the US is one heck of an interesting topic. :P
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Re: The German Question

Postby tflags » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:16 pm

JANCKER wrote:I know, this is a **** game and we take it too far sometimes, **** it.


Like when you called an ex coach a cockroach ? How are you Jancker? I hope you doing well these days. 8)
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Re: The German Question

Postby JANCKER » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:21 pm

tflags wrote:
JANCKER wrote:I know, this is a **** game and we take it too far sometimes, **** it.


Like when you called an ex coach a cockroach ? How are you Jancker? I hope you doing well these days. 8)


I call him a cockroach and the best coach ever, maybe I call him that because I had enough of him... did I ever call you out like you do with me and others?
The reason I hated him more is because of people who called everyone else who disagreed with them 'dumb', now after nothing worked out one should try defaming.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:11 pm

tflags wrote:If you are under the impression German players get the same treatment (in this forum) as non-German ones AND/OR you are under the impression Thiago got the same treatment as Gotze then we will continue to have a conflicting point of view.


Going back to your original statement everything is relative. True that Gotze in 2014 was overpaid at 12M per year compared to Thiago's 8M but on the same token Toni Kroos, a German with a history in the club, more important than Thiago for Bayern, a bigger international name was still paid half of Thiago's wages.

What happened in the 3 years that followed proved your point in Thiago versus Gotze, it does not versus Kroos. Kroos continuous to be a better player than Thiago and Kroos, still a german had been critized in the forum as bad a Thiago, being a Bayern player and even after he left.
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Re: The German Question

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:31 pm

Jorge wrote:Kroos continuous to be a better player than Thiago

I disagree
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:51 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Jorge wrote:Kroos continuous to be a better player than Thiago

I disagree


Based on................?
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Re: The German Question

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:55 pm

Well sure, but he was nowhere near the most important player for the world cup win. Actually, he almost cost Germany the final. Same with his first CL trophy with us, in which he didn't feature in the most important games and his replacement scored the title winner. With Real he is better, but from the admittedly limited times I've watched him, he's not as influential as an in-form Thiago is.

Titles aren't everything. For example, I believe that Thiago missing the Real Madrid tie was a big advantage for them in 2014. Sometimes, absence is more noteworthy.

I won't go into the value because there is no way whatsoever that anyone will ever sell Thiago for 30m. :P
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:12 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Well sure, but he was nowhere near the most important player for the world cup win. Actually, he almost cost Germany the final. Same with his first CL trophy with us, in which he didn't feature in the most important games and his replacement scored the title winner. With Real he is better, but from the admittedly limited times I've watched him, he's not as influential as an in-form Thiago is.

Titles aren't everything. For example, I believe that Thiago missing the Real Madrid tie was a big advantage for them in 2014. Sometimes, absence is more noteworthy.

I won't go into the value because there is no way whatsoever that anyone will ever sell Thiago for 30m. :P


I think that between facts and your opinion and my opinion, facts still have more weight.

Facts aside and going into the opinion part of it, related to World Cup and Champions League contributions, in my opinion Kroos contributed decisively in most games to all those titles to the point that he featured in the Best XI selected among all players in those competitions. When it comes to Thiago we have to wait to see how he contributes to that kind of titles.

What are we discussing here, an opinion supported by facts on one side versus a hypothetical guess on the other?
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:26 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote: I believe that Thiago missing the Real Madrid tie was a big advantage for them in 2014. Sometimes, absence is more noteworthy.


I am not defending him, but do you give Gotze the same benefit?
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Re: The German Question

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Jorge wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote: I believe that Thiago missing the Real Madrid tie was a big advantage for them in 2014. Sometimes, absence is more noteworthy.


I am not defending him, but do you give Gotze the same benefit?

No. Goetze was not playing well. In my opinion - and I don't think this is shared by many here - Thiago was already a very important player in his first season. Our downfall began more or less with his injury, if I remember correctly. In fact, back then I used to say we should sign a player similar to Thiago because he is too important and we need a backup with similar qualities for when he's injured. I acknowledge that this is the opinion part though, and in all likelihood Real would still have eliminated us, though perhaps by a smaller score.

Also, I believe Goetze was fit for that game? Not 100% sure though.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Dumbledore7 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:27 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Jorge wrote:Kroos continuous to be a better player than Thiago

I disagree


Not even the same type of player, Kroos is a #6 while Thiago a #8. However, from their pedigree alone, Kroos is way higher. If you watch Real, Kroos is an unbelievable dictator of tempo, he's basically a prime Alonso who presses even higher up the pitch. I wouldn't take Kroos back, although from quality alone I'll happily trade Thiago for Kroos. I understand that a lot of us don't watch him regularly after 2014 but his development has been nothing short of spectacular.
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Re: The German Question

Postby Jorge » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:56 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Jorge wrote:Kroos continuous to be a better player than Thiago

I disagree


Not even the same type of player, Kroos is a #6 while Thiago a #8. However, from their pedigree alone, Kroos is way higher. If you watch Real, Kroos is an unbelievable dictator of tempo, he's basically a prime Alonso who presses even higher up the pitch. I wouldn't take Kroos back, although from quality alone I'll happily trade Thiago for Kroos. I understand that a lot of us don't watch him regularly after 2014 but his development has been nothing short of spectacular.


Kroos played as a #8 primarily in Munich (in a double pivot system he had the freedom to go forward more than 50% of the time or behind the attacking trio in specific games) and consistently provided more than what Thiago has so far.

I go back to the original question: a lot a whining for Thiago not being valued as Gotze, but what about Kroos, an established fixture at Bayern who was earning half of Thiago's? Kroos was already dictating tempo in many important games for Bayern, just replay his performance in London or the year before in Valencia just to name 2. Thiago did not have a service to Bayern and was a bench player at Barcelona when he arrived.

Was Thiago also overpriced and over considered? Why don't we have a standard that applies equally across the board?
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Re: The German Question

Postby KrampusIsReal » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:25 am

I will say that being born in Germany that I love the national team. I love Bayern because, even though I was born in Bad-Cannstatt I'm not from Stuttgart and not a Swabian. My family is from München, we all support the club. I love German players and yes I do hold them in higher regards than others.

I can care less about other teams and nations players. If you're on Bayern I will support them. I may be a little more critical but wont flat out hate them. (still not an Alonzo fan lol)

I also liked when German players stayed in the Bundesliga, when they did the national team was better. We had a good run before and players like Ballack left for England and the National team struggled a bit. Many came back to BL and we won in 2014 and had a strong Euro even with out Reus and no real striker. We should have beat France, but you cant beat the officials too.

I am not sold on Carlo at the moment, we go out and kick the ever living shit out of Arsenal and then lay a dud against Hertha BSC. He's stubborn and with the talent we have we shouldn't be in the shape we're in. Lucky for us most likely Barca is out of the next round.

I love my birth country, i will be an italian citizen soon but will never be Gli Azzurri. Wife is pressuring me to pick up a Serie A team and I cant do it.... I like Sami Khedira and Rüdiger but I cant root for Roma or Juventus.

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Re: The German Question

Postby Thiagoalcantara » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:30 am

Same noobs that say kroos>thiago

Say Cristiano > Messi.

Over the past 3 seasons, Cristiano has won 2 Champs league being invisible in both and injured in Portugals Euro 2016 win vs France.

If people say,
Modric and Verratti>Thiago, there a good argument for it. KROOS? I dont see it. Kroos is a better deadball passer though and has a wicked shot. However, outside of that, I dont see anything Kroos is better than Thiago at.

In spain, regarding Cms, I value Rakitic over Kroos
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