You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

The Statistics Thread

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.
 

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby tflags » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:08 pm

Coman wrote:Wow your only answer is the Whoscored rate ? Hahahaha. Sorry I watch game. You watch Whoscored rate. Try better !


I've been posting a number of whoscored ratings lately and we've had some discussions before as to what how reliable their ratings are so I did a little further reading on the topic. Turns out, whoscored has a proprietary algorithm which takes into account around 200 variables per player/event but what is more important is it DOES take into account both the outcome (successful or not), location on the pitch (deeper events are given higher points) and it does penalize the player for unsuccessful events. It also takes into account how the event influenced the game.

The thing is whoscored takes raw data from Opta which seems to be the leading provider of live sports data. From Germany I couldn't find Bayern among its clients but it turns out Bayer (no wonder Reschencke was so good at scouting) is in as well as Bild and Kicker. Other clients (from a list of more than 100 household and not so known names) include Bloomberg, CNN, MU, Sky, Barza & Atlético and the like.

So before we get into another ignorant post such as, 'try better', I highly doubt we can. I found this interesting description from Opta's own data description page:

"For each event logged we add a series of descriptors: a pitch
coordinate, a player and team reference plus a time-stamp. These
variables enable us to provide hundreds of statistics on where
events occurred, which players were involved and when they took
place, meaning that the detail and range of information on every
ball contact is the largest available from any provider.
This level of detail means Opta data separates different types of
pass, such as through ball, headed flick-on and long balls. We can
tell which tackles were goal saving, from those which regained
possession in the final third, or even what percentage of shots
were left-footed volleys compared to diving headers.
We collect up to 2000 detailed events, live, during every match in
the competitions listed below..."

Hope this helps in evaluate how good or unreliable these statistics ratings can be. :P
Kimmich
Kimmich - Thiago - Kimmich
Kimmich -- Kimmich
Kimmich -- Hummels -- Boa --Kimmich
Kimmich with Gloves
User avatar
tflags
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8950
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Around the world... in 80 days.
National Flag:
Ecuador
Has thanked: 811 times
Been thanked: 2843 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby Coman » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:23 pm

And Whoscored says Xabi Alonso is our 5th best player this season.

Image

That's all I have to say :)
Bayern 3-3-3-1 build-up under Heynckes :
Neuer - Boateng Hummels Thiago - Kimmich Vidal Alaba - Robben Müller James - Lewandowski
Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
User avatar
Coman
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membership
 
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:16 am
National Flag:
International Atomic Energy Agency
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 1447 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby tflags » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:46 pm

Coman wrote:And Whoscored says Xabi Alonso is our 5th best player this season.


And I agree. That is exactly an average position. I don't think he has been quite calamitous (the guy can pass through the lines in case you haven't noticed) which certainly makes up for his abysmal lack of pace. He's also had some important goals, for a defensive midfielder.
Kimmich
Kimmich - Thiago - Kimmich
Kimmich -- Kimmich
Kimmich -- Hummels -- Boa --Kimmich
Kimmich with Gloves
User avatar
tflags
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8950
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Around the world... in 80 days.
National Flag:
Ecuador
Has thanked: 811 times
Been thanked: 2843 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:02 pm

Looks like a spot on ranking. If anything maybe Lewandowski and Robben can be switched, so can Alonso and Costa. Other than that perfect.
User avatar
Dumbledore7
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2930
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: London
National Flag:
Indonesia
Has thanked: 2033 times
Been thanked: 1857 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby Coman » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:21 pm

tflags wrote:
Coman wrote:And Whoscored says Xabi Alonso is our 5th best player this season.


And I agree. That is exactly an average position. I don't think he has been quite calamitous (the guy can pass through the lines in case you haven't noticed) which certainly makes up for his abysmal lack of pace. He's also had some important goals, for a defensive midfielder.

That's the problem with stats.

A player with 90% success pass and 80% of them for the goalkeeper will have a better rate than a player with 80% success pass but all forward.

Same for the mistake. A ball lost in his own area who gave a chance for the opponent = a ball lost after a cross in the opponent area.

Same for the bad defense. A good dual rate ok. But how many time Alonso was late and let his teammates alone ?

Etc.
Bayern 3-3-3-1 build-up under Heynckes :
Neuer - Boateng Hummels Thiago - Kimmich Vidal Alaba - Robben Müller James - Lewandowski
Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
User avatar
Coman
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membership
 
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:16 am
National Flag:
International Atomic Energy Agency
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 1447 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby JANCKER » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:53 pm

Image
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17559
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9154 times
Been thanked: 8455 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:09 pm

Image2016 in numbers

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 26546
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 21853 times
Been thanked: 6124 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby lau03143 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:29 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Image2016 in numbers

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Statistics I like!
To all those, Over the years,
who have come to
Munich as strangers
and left as good friends.
Zum Wohl!
User avatar
lau03143
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 3602
Joined: Wed May 18, 2011 9:29 am
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
National Flag:
Scotland
Has thanked: 337 times
Been thanked: 485 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby ottackon » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:35 pm

Simply the greatest club in the world (and no, the number of CLs is not the sole criterion)
Image
User avatar
ottackon
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:05 am
Location: Casablanca
National Flag:
Morocco
Has thanked: 1830 times
Been thanked: 3188 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby tflags » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:43 am

Coman wrote:
tflags wrote:
Coman wrote:And Whoscored says Xabi Alonso is our 5th best player this season.

And I agree. That is exactly an average position. I don't think he has been quite calamitous (the guy can pass through the lines in case you haven't noticed) which certainly makes up for his abysmal lack of pace. He's also had some important goals, for a defensive midfielder.

That's the problem with stats. A player with 90% success pass and 80% of them for the goalkeeper will have a better rate than a player with 80% success pass but all forward. Same for the mistake. A ball lost in his own area who gave a chance for the opponent = a ball lost after a cross in the opponent area. Same for the bad defense. A good dual rate ok. But how many time Alonso was late and let his teammates alone ?

And this is where you continue to be wrong. You seem not to listen. Not only are forward, side and backward passes differentiated, passes back to the keeper from forward positions have negligible impact on ratings. And for some reason I just stated that position on the pitch is one of the primordial influences on ratings; a missed passed in his own area which led to an opponent's goal would be severely penalized against a pass or cross (crosses are not passes by the way) on the last third.

But for some reason this discussion is futile if you continue to dismiss the importance of data in which the world of sports runs since the 1970s. So I bid you farewell as I don't see anything to gain from these discussions.
Kimmich
Kimmich - Thiago - Kimmich
Kimmich -- Kimmich
Kimmich -- Hummels -- Boa --Kimmich
Kimmich with Gloves
User avatar
tflags
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8950
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Around the world... in 80 days.
National Flag:
Ecuador
Has thanked: 811 times
Been thanked: 2843 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby Coman » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:39 pm

Ok ok. Can't wait to see one of our player being really bad and get one of the best rate in Whoscored.

Maybe you will understand that stats could be useless if his performance cost the qualification for Bayern.

I already see reactions : "Alonso 8,1 ? What the hell he was shit and our main problem. And Robben only 6,8 while he was our best player".

We'll see if you come with your stats logics.
Bayern 3-3-3-1 build-up under Heynckes :
Neuer - Boateng Hummels Thiago - Kimmich Vidal Alaba - Robben Müller James - Lewandowski
Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
User avatar
Coman
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membership
 
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:16 am
National Flag:
International Atomic Energy Agency
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 1447 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby JANCKER » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:16 pm

Image
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17559
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9154 times
Been thanked: 8455 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby JANCKER » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:30 pm

Image
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17559
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9154 times
Been thanked: 8455 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby ottackon » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:38 pm

Ben Mayhew updated his scatter graphics looking at the shot dominance and the attacking & defensive effectivenes of football clubs. Surprise, surprise, Bayern are in the “green areas” in the Bundesliga and also in the consolidated view of the top four European leagues.


Can't see tweet? Click here!
Can't see tweet? Click here!
Image
User avatar
ottackon
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6130
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:05 am
Location: Casablanca
National Flag:
Morocco
Has thanked: 1830 times
Been thanked: 3188 times
Gender: Male

Re: The Statistics Thread

Postby JANCKER » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:53 pm

Image
.........................................Image.........................................
User avatar
JANCKER
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 17559
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:03 am
Location: 710 miles SE from Allianz Arena
National Flag:
Basque Country
Has thanked: 9154 times
Been thanked: 8455 times
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to General Bayern Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests