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Question about Bayern History

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Question about Bayern History

Postby schweini31 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:03 am

I wonder why Bayern didn't play the intercontinental Cup in 1974 and 1975?
was there any specific reason why they did decline to participate ?
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby Commodore » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:14 am

I could research further details, but I just got home (5:00am) and am not exactly sober. :D

Suffice to say those games would have been vs Argentinian sides, who were (and, frankly, ARE) known for playing not a rough, but a violent style of football.

The importance of the cup (small) vs. the importance of the physical health of our players (high) made us withdraw from these games. I'll research more details when I wake up, but I'm fairly confident that the gist of what I just said is about right.
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby AssemFCB » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:37 am

Commodore wrote:I could research further details, but I just got home (5:00am) and am not exactly sober. :D

Suffice to say those games would have been vs Argentinian sides, who were (and, frankly, ARE) known for playing not a rough, but a violent style of football.

The importance of the cup (small) vs. the importance of the physical health of our players (high) made us withdraw from these games. I'll research more details when I wake up, but I'm fairly confident that the gist of what I just said is about right.

I think another factor was the financial one, traveling all the way to Argentina was costly for Bayern of the mid seventies, who were in some debt back then.
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby tflags » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:31 pm

Commodore wrote:Suffice to say those games would have been vs Argentinian sides, who were (and, frankly, ARE) known for playing not a rough, but a violent style of football.


Wút? Do you see many Boca or River games to assest that?
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby lau03143 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:59 pm

tflags wrote:
Commodore wrote:Suffice to say those games would have been vs Argentinian sides, who were (and, frankly, ARE) known for playing not a rough, but a violent style of football.


Wút? Do you see many Boca or River games to assest that?


In the 70's, I wouldn't say that is so hard to imagine
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby tflags » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:50 am

tflags wrote:
Commodore wrote:Suffice to say those games would have been vs Argentinian sides, who were (and, frankly, ARE) known for playing not a rough, but a violent style of football.


Wút? Do you see many Boca or River games to assest that?


This is the type of comment that really just pisses me off. I wonder how many matches from AFA you get to see per year to be in a position to make such a comment. I don't particularly like Argentinian football, but a guy around here watches his beloved River while we wait from the European games to the local ones.

Fouls are, if you ask me, pretty normal and yes, things will go downright ugly outside the pitch if your landmark team gets historically relegated. Not dissimilar episodes were seen around Frankfurt if I am not mistaken a year or two ago.

But as far as games go, I am not exactly certain is it mildly as rough as a league like say, Serie A.

So as for the 'now' part of the comment, I would say it is nothing but a baseless remark.

As far as the '70s goes; you are messing with Argentina's golden era pre-Maradona. An era were Menotti at the helm and Kempes on the pitch defeated the Clockwork Orange and allmighty Platini's France. Their late '70s break into the world stage marked the start of an era for two of the best coaches the World Cup has seen, Menotti and more notably Bilardo; as well as some of the best players ever to play under the FIFA brand.

These people reached the pinnacle of world Football playing with a LOT of style, strategy, stamina and yes, lady luck not unlike Bayern's dusel (plus some dirty tricks of their own) played a huge part too. I don't recall, however, an episode of violence in that country's most referenced sport event of the last decade.

Calling those dawning years of national pride for them as 'violent football' is an insult to be honest.

What your baseless (and tasteless) remarks refer to, most probably, are some European teams protest to play in a country under a lot of political instability. Such was the case of the Netherlands refusal to play in Argentina's 1978 World Cup because of the dictatorship at the time.

Yes, there was a lot of political instability throughout the region during the last century in this part of the globe. Though it has not been written or covered as much because it didn't exactly produce the devastation that other dictatorships did a bit before that.
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby MUTU » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:03 pm

A reply that's almost a year old, but my take is that violence in Argentine football at the time was not a myth. And it's true that Bayern refused to play because they were scared of injuries,
which was what happened to AC Milan [source]
.

This is the way players used to tackle in those days. It's an AC Milan player at the 1969 Intercontinental Cup:
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Estudiantes goalkeeper Poletti was banned for life by the AFA after an Intercontinental Cup clash with AC Milan in Buenos Aires that led the country's president, Juan Carlos Ongania, to order the imprisonment of three of the home side's players.

Poletti had punched Gianni Rivera and kicked Nestor Combin in the face as he lay on the ground, as well as brawling with Milan fans, leading Ongania to express "shock and dismay" at the situation, adding: "The Estudiantes players violated the most elementary standards of sporting ethics."

The 23-year-old 'keeper was told he would never play again and spent 30 days in prison. The two other players to be remanded in custody, Ramon Aguirre Suarez and Eduardo Manero, were also given lengthy domestic and international bans.

As it transpired, Poletti would serve only seven months of his life ban before receiving a pardon when President Ongania's regime was brought to an end by a military junta, but the goalkeeper told the AS newspaper in 2005 that he felt he had "paid for what I did", adding: "Football was violent at that time." [source]


After a promising start, the competition became dogged by foul play in the late 1960s. Indeed, by the 1970s some European teams were unwilling to take part. AFC Ajax started the trend in 1971 and 1973, with FC Bayern München (1974) and Liverpool (1977) following suit, while the 1975 competition did not take place at all. [source]


They twice won the old Intercontinental Cup between the champions of Europe and South America, beating Brazil's Cruzeiro over two legs in 1976 and Boca Juniors in a single match played in Tokyo in 2001.

They declined to take part in the 1974 and 1975 matches during a period when the fixture was marred by violence. [source]
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby tflags » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:14 pm

Get your facts straight please:

"In 1976, when Brazilian side Cruzeiro won the Copa Libertadores, the European champions Bayern Munich willingly participated, with the Bavarians winning 2-0 on aggregate. In an interview with Jornal do Brasil, Bayern's manager Dettmar Cramer denied that Bayern's refusal to dispute the 1974 and 1975 Intercontinental Cups were a result of the rivals being Argentine teams. He claimed it was a scheduling impossibility, rather, which kept the Germans from participating. He also stated that the competition was not economically rewarding due to the team's fan base's disinterest in the Cup. To cover the costs of playing the first leg in Munich's Olympiastadion, the organizers needed to have a minimum of 25,000 spectators. However, due to heavy snow and cold weather, only 18,000 showed up. Because of this deficit, Cramer stated that if Bayern were to win the European Cup again, they would decline to participate as it held no assurances of income."

Now, why don't we add a dedicated thread to violence in football. Then I can post a picture of a bunch of corpses from a European final vs an English team instead of a bloody player. I really hate this moral high ground BS.
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby MUTU » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:55 pm

tflags wrote:Get your facts straight please:

"In 1976, when Brazilian side Cruzeiro won the Copa Libertadores, the European champions Bayern Munich willingly participated, with the Bavarians winning 2-0 on aggregate. In an interview with Jornal do Brasil, Bayern's manager Dettmar Cramer denied that Bayern's refusal to dispute the 1974 and 1975 Intercontinental Cups were a result of the rivals being Argentine teams. He claimed it was a scheduling impossibility, rather, which kept the Germans from participating. He also stated that the competition was not economically rewarding due to the team's fan base's disinterest in the Cup. To cover the costs of playing the first leg in Munich's Olympiastadion, the organizers needed to have a minimum of 25,000 spectators. However, due to heavy snow and cold weather, only 18,000 showed up. Because of this deficit, Cramer stated that if Bayern were to win the European Cup again, they would decline to participate as it held no assurances of income."

Now, why don't we add a dedicated thread to violence in football. Then I can post a picture of a bunch of corpses from a European final vs an English team instead of a bloody player. I really hate this moral high ground BS.

That was the official excuse, that it was a scheduling problem. But I don't buy it. Bayern had just been named European champions and had the chance to be named world champions for the first time on top of that. And they were going to miss that opportunity so that they don't maybe lose a few thousands, which they could recoup later through fame and merchandise?

An Argentine club won in 1974, and Bayern had "scheduling problems"
An Argentine club won in 1975, and Bayern had "scheduling problems"
A Brazilian club won in 1976, and then magically Bayern had no "scheduling problems" anymore, played (at home with an attendance of 22,000 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Intercontinental_Cup), and won.
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Re: Question about Bayern History

Postby bounce wit me » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:47 pm

Independiente were a group of savages who assaulted the players from Ajax in 1972. They refused to play in 1973 again against Independiente, so Juventus did, where they were promptly victimised against those brutes from Argentina. It's no surprise that Bayern refused to play in the Intercontinental Cup until a team that was not filled with thugs was the opponent.
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