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Pyro

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Re: Pyro

Postby quaazi » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:19 pm

munichfan wrote:State one Bayern game where this happened and I promise you I will pay all your expenditures for an upcoming Bayern match.

I haven't been to a Bayern game (as you probably know). My experiences are of a totally different kind. Large amount of which involve Russians.

Don't be so defensive, I'm not accusing you guys of anything.
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Re: Pyro

Postby OhioFan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:56 pm

I am afraid ultraism is too much for an old guy like me (big) BUT, unless someone gets hurt or fights happen, I am all behind the ultras and what they stand for, even pyro. Oh, the good old days of insanity, I can almost remember them.
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Re: Pyro

Postby armbrust » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:53 pm

Care to add a reason with your argument? Would mightily improve this forum if more comments were well-founded.


Ok ill give one argument:

A new study led by researchers from the Institute of Environmental Assessment and Water Research (IDAEA-CSIC), concluded that the metallic particles within the smoke produced by fireworks can cause serious health issues, especially to people suffering from asthma.

The research focused on the San Juan fiestas – 23/24 June, 2008, in the Spanish city of Girona, AlphaGalileo reports.

The levels of over 30 chemical elements and compounds were analyzed in May and June, to confirm that any variations in lead, copper, strontium, potassium and magnesium levels, were caused by the fireworks.

In other cities, the situation was similar; in the Las Fallas fiestas in Valencia, for example, during the Mascletà (18 March), the levels of these chemicals rose again, and so did the levels of aluminum, titanium, barium and antimony, and concentrations of nitric oxide (NO) and sulfur dioxide (SO2).

Previous studies have concluded that the smoke caused by the fireworks, rises the concentration of metallic particles over cities like L'Alcora and Borriana (Castellón), Barcelona and even London (UK) during the Guy Fawkes' Night celebrations.

Teresa Moreno, a researcher from the IDAEA (CSIC) and lead author of a study that has been published this week in the Journal of Hazardous Materials, told SINC that “people who live in cities already inhale significant amounts of contaminant particles stemming from traffic emissions, chimneys and cigarettes, and the dense smoke caused by fireworks only worsens this situation.


“The toxicological research has shown that many of the metallic particles in the smoke from fireworks are bio-reactive and can affect human health.”

In order to obtain colorful fireworks, metals are added to the gunpowder, and when a fireworks explodes, it releases a lot of smoke, along with minute metallic particles, of a few microns in size, or even less, small enough to be inhaled deeply into the lungs.

Moreno explains that “this poses a risk to health, and the effects are probably more acute in people with a background of asthma or cardiovascular problems.

“The effects in healthy people are still unknown, but common sense tells us it cannot be good to inhale the high levels of metallic particles in this smoke, even if this only happens a few times a year.”

The researcher says that this is just like the problem with tobacco: “the less you expose yourself to the smoke, the fewer negative effects it will have on your health, and so the best solution is to avoid inhaling it.”

And as fireworks are completely legal and will probably not be banned sometime in the near future, all spectators should keep their distance and pay attention to the direction of the wind.

Researchers also recommend that fireworks display should be sited so that the plume of smoke won't reach densely populated areas.

The study was led by researchers from the Institute of Environmental Assessment and Water Research, and was published this week in the Journal of Hazardous Materials.
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Re: Pyro

Postby The Spyware » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:28 pm

It seems for me uncharacteristic in the Bayern stands

I don't know I see it as a something new or strange coming from supporters in other countries and I used to identify our club as a club of unmatched traditions so that's the reason why I don't like it so much

But at the end of the day It's something related to the Ultras group , they are unique IMO with their positives and negatives, The Pyro show is something they seem to love and enjoy a lot , not Schickeria only of course it's everywhere and Here in Egypt there are many problems related to Pyro between Ultras groups , Police and football federation.
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Re: Pyro

Postby munichfan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:30 pm

OhioFan wrote:Oh, the good old days of insanity, I can almost remember them.

Almost remember?! They're experiences never to be forgotten, my friend :P




@armbrust:
Fantastic, your argument consists of copy-pasting an article which I also found simply by typing in "Fireworks dangerous" on Google. Just goes to show how ill-informed you are: "Colourful explosions" (as explained in the article, only the colour is created the metals, not the fire itself) most certainly do not occur during the use of pyrotechnical equipment in the form of bengal fires and smoke grenades.

Apart from that, it would be better if you were to provide the source you do your copy-pasting from.

Go on, have another go. Have you personally experienced it?




MUTU wrote:Very interesting. Seems like a lot of people are in their favour. I'm just wondering, what are the risks of bigger kind of fireworks starting to come in if pyrotechnics become a legal norm, which may be much more dangerous?


Good point and something I hadn't thought of in the past.

However, I would consider this possibility to be fairly scarce. The traditional pyrotechnical equipment that regularly comes into use has been the same (stated above) since it first found its way into stadia in Europe and Latin America in the early 60s. Their legalisation is unlikely to bring around a change in the type of equipment used - especially seeing as the campaign mentioned above seeks to improve the safety conditions in which the pyro is lighted. Because - and everyone should know this - pyrotechnics will continue to find their way into stadia, just like they have for the past 5 decades!




quaazi wrote:
munichfan wrote:State one Bayern game where this happened and I promise you I will pay all your expenditures for an upcoming Bayern match.

I haven't been to a Bayern game (as you probably know). My experiences are of a totally different kind. Large amount of which involve Russians.


Ah, well in that case, I understand the effect such experiences (I can imagine what you've seen) would have on an onlooker! But you're right, the experience is a whole load more special!
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Re: Pyro

Postby sch0ll7 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:30 pm

I love pyro...but with responsible fans.

I remember last year when I was at Inter - Bayern game at San Siro...one of our own fans threw burning torche to the 1st tier onto some Inter fan`s head...I felt like I will die. That Inter fan was injured...they probably didnt show that on TV. Whole stadium went nuts.



This was it...but it does not show when one of our fans throw pyro torch down to 1st tier.


But I still love pyro when it is connected to cooregraphie...and it looks nice:)
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Re: Pyro

Postby munichfan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:45 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:I remember last year when I was at Inter - Bayern game at San Siro...one of our own fans threw burning torche to the 1st tier onto some Inter fan`s head...I felt like I will die. That Inter fan was injured...they probably didnt show that on TV. Whole stadium went nuts.


Do you have a source for this?
I was at the game as well and for sure did not hear or see an Inter fan injured.
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Re: Pyro

Postby TuHdTSV » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:51 pm

The Spyware wrote:It seems for me uncharacteristic in the Bayern stands

I don't know I see it as a something new or strange coming from supporters in other countries and I used to identify our club as a club of unmatched traditions so that's the reason why I don't like it so much


... :lol:

It's been around since the early 70s... AT LEAST! At my first ever Bayern game in 1996, I was greeted by a flaming inferno and ever since then I've been in love with it! Bayern fans are definitely not out of character when it comes to lighting pyro.

Plus, Bayern really doesn't have thaaaaaat many unmatched traditions :P
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Re: Pyro

Postby sch0ll7 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:52 pm

I have myself to witness it:)...It was quite clear from my angle....1 of pyro torch flew down from 3rd tier to the 1st tier...and right onto 1 Inter fan...than 2 or 3 of his friends were covering his head and his back...it looked like he was hurt by the burning flames.

maybe you were on 3rd tier [bayern fans] and you didnt see it because it was right under you...I was at the opposite end...and everyone from where I was sitting could clearly see that pyro torch flying from 3rd tier over the 2nd and right in the middle of the 1st tier onto 1 mans head/back....and than whole stadium went crazy....BUUUUU-ing:)
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Re: Pyro

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:53 pm

Just curious, if a guy three rows in front of you lights one of these things, does it not impede your vision of the pitch? And if it does, does it not increase the likelihood of fights between fans? I could imagine if there's some penalty and I can't see properly that I would be very angry.
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Re: Pyro

Postby MCCCXII » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:57 pm

Was at the game in Milan as well. Don't remember a Milan supporter being injured and the whole stadium didn't erupt in a ball of anger. Source?
Glad you like pyro though!!!!
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Re: Pyro

Postby TuHdTSV » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:08 am

MUTU wrote:Just curious, if a guy three rows in front of you lights one of these things, does it not impede your vision of the pitch? And if it does, does it not increase the likelihood of fights between fans? I could imagine if there's some penalty and I can't see properly that I would be very angry.



:shock: :oops: :roll:

Well, that's where you differentiate between ultras and fans. Ultras travel to every game and therefore are not too concerned if they miss a moment of the game or a goal due to impaired vision. They go to the game with the intent and main priority of supporting the team.

Normal fans, who go to a Bayern game once every while will react differently. Some will not get their eyes off the fire and probably film it too (really annoying when they do that), others will of course be irritated. But then again, who on earth would voluntarily fight the groups of people setting off flares? If you're the one person that would, please tell me when you're next going to a game. I have to see this! :lol:

Nonetheless, I think in the history of football, no one has lit a flare when a freekick or penalty is/was about to be taken.
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Re: Pyro

Postby TuHdTSV » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:14 am

@armbrust:

:|

Yeah, please have another go.
I know I'm new here, but the biggest international Bayernforum should try and maintain a certain level of intellectual value in its posts.
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Re: Pyro

Postby The Spyware » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:30 am

TuHdTSV wrote:
The Spyware wrote:It seems for me uncharacteristic in the Bayern stands

I don't know I see it as a something new or strange coming from supporters in other countries and I used to identify our club as a club of unmatched traditions so that's the reason why I don't like it so much


... :lol:

It's been around since the early 70s... AT LEAST! At my first ever Bayern game in 1996, I was greeted by a flaming inferno and ever since then I've been in love with it! Bayern fans are definitely not out of character when it comes to lighting pyro.

Plus, Bayern really doesn't have thaaaaaat many unmatched traditions :P


Man I mean that Pyro shows that have stormed into many stadiums across the world with the uprising of ultras movements

and for the Plus , I am totally against what you wrote from my point of view
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Re: Pyro

Postby TuHdTSV » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:48 am

The Spyware wrote:Man I mean that Pyro shows that have stormed into many stadiums across the world with the uprising of ultras movements


Well, Munich's first ultrà group, the Munichmaniacs, founded in 1996, definitely were not the first group in Munich to light flares at games.
Nor were the ultrà groups in other countries.

As for the plus, a discussion about this doesn't really belong into here and we should try to keep the forum organised, but in short: I don't feel Munich has very many traditions. Like all other clubs, they're selling shares, increasing ticket prices (for places in a non-traditional stadium), changing shirt colours and logos. That's just the way it is, I don't think Bayern is particularly traditional.
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