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Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

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Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Kahn4ever » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:55 pm

Hey guys, I'm new here, but I've been following this forum for about a month now and, well, here goes nothing. This is very much inspired by the "Kroos VS Gustavo" thread which is on here just a different position and updated.

Anyways, who should be our CAM? For what kind of games do we want to put them in? My personal preference for most games is Kroos, as he has better distribution and technique than Müller, which is better suited for the kind of possession game Bayern plays, and I would prefer Shaq being on the wing, as I think his pace and dribbling skills would be of better use on the wing. Müller, though, has a much better work rate, and brings excellent movement and unpredictability to CAM. Kroos, on the other hand, is much more static and measured, and is better suited to start games and stabilize the dominance of possession. But if, let's say, it's the sixtieth minute, the game's tied up or we're down a goal, and Kroos failed to provide a spark in the midfield and attack, I think Müller would be in a fine position to come off the bench and offer a different kind of threat and edge to the attack. What does Bayernforum think?
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby samaj » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:57 pm

Doesn't matter where you put Muller, as long as he plays he'll keep scoring goals or at least giving assists.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Kahn4ever » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:03 pm

samaj wrote:Doesn't matter where you put Muller, as long as he plays he'll keep scoring goals or at least giving assists.

True, he's been potent in the RAM or RWM area as well, but my general feeling is that Bayern has too much depth there for him to break into that position against an uninjured and in-form Robben or Shaqiri.
EDIT: But then again, Robben being in-form AND uninjured happens once in a blue moon these days. :P
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Kevinx67 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:22 am

I think Kroos will always start and he should. The problem is where does Muller play when Robben plays? You could play Muller next to Kroos and play one holding mid against the weaker teams and bring him off the bench when we play 2 holding mid's. I think Shaqiri was brought in to play when Glass Robben is hurt and that is atleast 3 times a year. Bayern Munich has the best midfield in game today and no matter who plays they shouldn't miss a beat.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:35 am

Ribery---Kroos---Robben

That's my favourite lineup.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby AssemFCB » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:30 am

For me it's Ribéry Muller Robben withe Kroos as a 6 and Shaq as a super sub. On current form, it should be Ribéry Shaq Muller, Kroos is too lethargic.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Firefox1234 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:42 am

I personally am not a fan of Kroos as an AM, and i dont believe Muller is also a AM. I would just play whoever is on form at AM and right now its Kroos. Hopefully one day Bayern will either switch to a 4-3-3 to solve this issue or find a true AM.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby lau03143 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:23 pm

I wouldn't have Kroos as AM anymore.

I want him to develop at CDM along with Gustavo and Martinez to be the long time replacement for Schweinsteiger.

I want to see Shaqiri and Mueller develop together as I see these two guys (Shaqiri in particular) being the long time replacement of Robbery.

I think we might see some of our younger players come through and devlop a CAM from our youth team. So for the moment, I can see Mueller playing a rotating CAM role with either one of Ribery, Shaqiri or Robben (depending on injuries and form).
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:43 pm

AssemFCB wrote:Kroos as a 6

Firefox1234 wrote:not a fan of Kroos as an AM

lau03143 wrote:I wouldn't have Kroos as AM anymore.

Whatever it is you guys have been watching the past two months, it most definitely was not a single game of Bayern.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby lau03143 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:56 pm

Commodore wrote:
AssemFCB wrote:Kroos as a 6

Firefox1234 wrote:not a fan of Kroos as an AM

lau03143 wrote:I wouldn't have Kroos as AM anymore.

Whatever it is you guys have been watching the past two months, it most definitely was not a single game of Bayern.


Kroos is pedantic, methodical and a 'cultured' CM. He can slow up the attack as much as anything, especially if we're struggling for ideas. It's quite clear he's not a traditional CAM.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:10 pm

lau03143 wrote:Kroos is pedantic, methodical and a 'cultured' CM. He can slow up the attack as much as anything, especially if we're struggling for ideas. It's quite clear he's not a traditional CAM.



I'm not interested in any of these labels. Funny enough, to refute my argument that Kroos is one of the best #10s in the game, I've now been hearing:

1. He's not a modern CAM
2. He's not a traditional CAM

Frankly, I don't care anymore whether or not you guys think he's a "Modern CAM", a "Traditional CAM", a "Renaissance CAM", an "Avant Garde CAM" or a f*cking "Fin de Siècle CAM".

Kroos is, has been and will (hopefully) remain one of the best attacking midfielders in the game today whatever the label that he'll be given in the end may be.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby quaazi » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:47 pm

Like Gomez is one of the best pure strikers in the world yet we benefit enormously from having an alternative to him.

Of course, Kroos' case is not, nor was it ever as extreme, but the overall playing style of the team comes first. But with him slowly but steadily overcoming every criticism directed at him, I see no reason he shouldn't be the first choice no 10 in the team, and for a long while at that.

And Kroos was very much a traditional CAM. In fact that was the whole issue with him. He was like a very, very trequartista for quite some time, but the experience in deeper midfield helped him, I'd say in retrospect.

Whatever we do decide to do with him though, it's clear that the team will have to be built around him like any true playmaker.
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--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby dambun » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:58 pm

I would give the #10 position to Kroos, but not at the expense of Mueller... He always plays in my team, if he is not tired... It doesn't matter if it's as a striker or as RAM... He is always there... I just choose the other players around him...
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Firefox1234 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:13 pm

Bayern Munich has a lot of conflicts with Gomez not being a modern #9 and Kroos not being a modern AM. :P Personally the one reason I want to see Kroos as a CM is mostly cause atm Bayern have there is no replacement for Schwein who is 28/29 yrs old and countless times we see that without him Bayern kinda suck. Also Kroos has played well as a CM, dont forget Bayern beat Dortmund for the first time in 5 attempts when Kroos was a CM and Bayern played great. I think Kroos is the only one on the team who can replace Schwein as a CM and it would be smart long term wise to prepare him to play there cause if Schwein was to get hurt again for a long period of time Kroos would play CM and Muller would be bumped to AM. Unless something changes in the near future Kroos will play as a CM if there is no replacement for Schwein.
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Re: Müller or Kroos (Shaqiri as dark horse)

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:47 pm

I don't think there's a chance in hell that Kroos will be a long-term replacement for "Schwein" (as you call him) in central/defensive midfield (you do realize "Schwein" is "pig" in German).

We have two players who we specifically bought for this position, one of whom played an awesome season so far. The other unfortunately is already falling from favor with you guys just because you think his price-tag should dictate a more offensive role for him than he has been assigned so far.

None of this matters, though, because fortunately:

Trainer is not Idiot

If Schweinsteiger hurt himself now, it's not unlikely Kroos would see some minutes on the pivot position, but mainly for rotational purposes to rest either Gustavo or Martínez, and obviously also depending on Heynckes faith (or lack thereof) in Tymoshchuk (not to mention Can or Alaba).

Since you guys like talking about modern football so much:
In the modern game, world class teams play more than 50 games in the span from September till the end of May. The modern team don't have The One #10 player, The One striker, The One winger or The One defensive mid.

The modern team conserve their players' energy knowing full well that when they need to rest a player, they can do so without expense on the teams' overall quality.

Kroos, Shaqiri, Müller Robben and Ribéry are all fantastic players. Each and every one of them brings something different to the table, that's true, but comparing them on a level like "who has more overall skill", I don't know, feels like arguing about how one should pronounce potato or tomato.
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