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LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:29 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I haven't personally heard about cases of physical violence in Malta either, but hate crime goes beyond that.
Tipo jokes?

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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby Jorge » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:30 pm

One question, I read in this forum the term LGBTIQ but in the US Media they refer to LGBT only, and I have also read LGBTQ+ recently on Bumper Stickers and someone explained to me that not having the plus (+) discriminate against minorities within the minorities. Besides the fact that sources indicate that there are from 58 to over 100 gender identities my only concern is: where will all this end? I am personally open minded and I tolerate pretty much anything when it comes to sexuality but when I hear about a triple gay marriage
Article [source]
or a baby in Canada with 3 parents named in the birth certificate, the two lesbian mothers and the biological father,
Article [source]
.
Again where will the line be drawn? If there is a triple marriage there will be a marriage of 4 coming soon, or 10 or 12 which is a common practice in some cultures but not in the Western Civilization (Judeo-Christian Culture for the most part) In the countries where polygamy is leagl discrimination towards women is also legal and that should be a problem for anyone advocating equal rights. If kids can have 3 parents, they can have 10 or 12 as well, how are going to be the custody battles in the future for a kid with 20 parents? Can I claim a gender that I invent and seek protection based on 100 other recognized gender identities?

True that the institution of marriage is in crisis in the Western World with 50% of marriages ending in divorce but I personally struggle trying to understand in what direction we are heading to, since the flood gates seem to be open to much more than same sex marriage or adults doing behind close doors whatever they want, or people being recognized with equal rights by traditional institutions and governments.
Last edited by Jorge on Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:34 pm

Jorge wrote:One question, I read in this forum the term LGBTIQ but in the US Media they refer to LGBT only, and I have also read LGBTQ+ recently on Bumper Stickers and someone explained to me that not having the plus (+) discriminate against minorities within the minorities. Besides the fact that sources indicate that there are from 58 to over 100 gender identities my only concern is: where will all this end? I am personally open minded and I tolerate pretty much anything when it comes to sexuality but when I hear about a triple gay marriage
Article [source]
or a baby in Canada with 3 parents named in the birth certificate, the two lesbian mothers and the biological father,
Article [source]
, again where will the line be drawn? If there is a triple marriage there will be a marriage of 4 coming soon, or 10 or 12 which is a common practice in some cultures but not in the Western Civilization (Judeo-Christian Culture for the most part) and openly discriminatory towards women; if kids can have 3 parents, they can have 10 or 12 as well, how are going to be the custody battles in the future for a kid with 20 parents? Can I claim a gender that I invent and seek protection based on 100 other recognized gender identities?

True that the institution of marriage is in crisis in the Western World with 50% of marriages ending in divorce but I personally struggle trying to understand in what direction we are heading to, since the flood gates seem to be open to much more than same sex marriage or adults doing behind close doors whatever they want, or people being recognized with equal rights by traditional institutions and governments.
My advice.... don't try to understand... the world is heading into an abyss...

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U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:49 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
Jorge wrote:One question, I read in this forum the term LGBTIQ but in the US Media they refer to LGBT only, and I have also read LGBTQ+ recently on Bumper Stickers and someone explained to me that not having the plus (+) discriminate against minorities within the minorities. Besides the fact that sources indicate that there are from 58 to over 100 gender identities my only concern is: where will all this end? I am personally open minded and I tolerate pretty much anything when it comes to sexuality but when I hear about a triple gay marriage
Article [source]
or a baby in Canada with 3 parents named in the birth certificate, the two lesbian mothers and the biological father,
Article [source]
, again where will the line be drawn? If there is a triple marriage there will be a marriage of 4 coming soon, or 10 or 12 which is a common practice in some cultures but not in the Western Civilization (Judeo-Christian Culture for the most part) and openly discriminatory towards women; if kids can have 3 parents, they can have 10 or 12 as well, how are going to be the custody battles in the future for a kid with 20 parents? Can I claim a gender that I invent and seek protection based on 100 other recognized gender identities?

True that the institution of marriage is in crisis in the Western World with 50% of marriages ending in divorce but I personally struggle trying to understand in what direction we are heading to, since the flood gates seem to be open to much more than same sex marriage or adults doing behind close doors whatever they want, or people being recognized with equal rights by traditional institutions and governments.
My advice.... don't try to understand... the world is heading into an abyss...

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Yeah, but the reason is Trump and the likes of him and not who is attracted by whom
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby Jorge » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:00 pm

#12 wrote:Yeah, but the reason is Trump and the likes of him and not who is attracted by whom


I understand your sarcasm and who the target is but aside from that Trump has not ideology, he is a populist who rides on the ideology of others. For a reason a sizable part of the Republican Party doesn't let him ride on their back, there is a Never Trump movement within the Republican Party and the most authentic conservative outlets in the USA like National Review are anti-trump by nature.

Trump himself, when it comes to morality and traditional values, is a wreck. BTW, there are signs like this one all over the USA:
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:03 pm

I just used him as a symbol for the new/alt right in general
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:29 am

Jorge wrote:One question, I read in this forum the term LGBTIQ but in the US Media they refer to LGBT only, and I have also read LGBTQ+ recently on Bumper Stickers and someone explained to me that not having the plus (+) discriminate against minorities within the minorities. Besides the fact that sources indicate that there are from 58 to over 100 gender identities my only concern is: where will all this end? I am personally open minded and I tolerate pretty much anything when it comes to sexuality but when I hear about a triple gay marriage
Article [source]
or a baby in Canada with 3 parents named in the birth certificate, the two lesbian mothers and the biological father,
Article [source]
.
Again where will the line be drawn? If there is a triple marriage there will be a marriage of 4 coming soon, or 10 or 12 which is a common practice in some cultures but not in the Western Civilization (Judeo-Christian Culture for the most part) In the countries where polygamy is leagl discrimination towards women is also legal and that should be a problem for anyone advocating equal rights. If kids can have 3 parents, they can have 10 or 12 as well, how are going to be the custody battles in the future for a kid with 20 parents? Can I claim a gender that I invent and seek protection based on 100 other recognized gender identities?

True that the institution of marriage is in crisis in the Western World with 50% of marriages ending in divorce but I personally struggle trying to understand in what direction we are heading to, since the flood gates seem to be open to much more than same sex marriage or adults doing behind close doors whatever they want, or people being recognized with equal rights by traditional institutions and governments.
I'm also a completely anti-discrimination guy, but yeah... I think the whole gender and identity crowd are just plain ridiculous...

Wouldn't make much a fuss about it, though. They are just ridiculous, not dangerous or anything. The abyss talk is just plainly alarmist.

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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:45 am

@Jorge: i agree with you on one implied point, and that is that only biological parents (were known) should be listed on birth certificates. This is important both because the child may one day want to know who they are but also, more generally, because a third party is involved. A third party, and especially a child, has to be protected. For the same reason I am against the recent case of a newborn being listed as gender neutral. I mean, yeah, it's hard when a person who feels this way has to go through changes later in life, but since the majority of people aren't like that, there's a high likelihood you are putting those difficulties on your child when it turns out they don't feel that way.

Regarding your point legal discrimination towards women, the two don't go hand in hand. Not to advocate polygamy or anything, but that being legal doesn't mean discrimination is as well, irrespective of what's going on in other cultures.

As for your other question in the second paragraph, you're asking the wrong question. Or rather, it's a bit of a non-question. The whole point of equality is that you will be protected and treated equally irrespective of your gender identity. Therefore, there would be absolutely no need to invent a gender and seek protection. Also, there is a certain basis that supports the existence of non-binary genders. To my knowledge, this is still quite a limited amount, nowhere close to what you mentioned. These should all be legally recognised, since there's something to back them up. Anything else which the random Joe comes up with shouldn't have legal and medical/psychological recognition until studies suggest otherwise.
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby Jorge » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:15 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Regarding your point legal discrimination towards women, the two don't go hand in hand. Not to advocate polygamy or anything, but that being legal doesn't mean discrimination is as well, irrespective of what's going on in other cultures.


I see a clear correlation between countries and societies where polygamy is accepted or legal and plain discrimination of women. Starting with the fact that men are allowed to have multiple wives while women are exposed to all kinds of barbaric punishments for doing only 1% of what men are celebrated for, then coincidentally you have the practice of fathers selling their daughters to the highest bidder, sexual mutilation as a practice to support the set of values imposed by the practice of treating women like trading objects, and I can go on and on for ever.

I invite you to read more on this subject and think for a second that we are in the 21st century, but it is up to you to establish your own set of values as a human being.
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:12 pm

Yes, but one isn't the result of the other. Women in those countries would be living in the same conditions even if polygamy were illegal there as well.
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:22 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Yes, but one isn't the result of the other. Women in those countries would be living in the same conditions even if polygamy were illegal there as well.
That is why integration can never happen and it is counter productive...
Those advocating to import the whole of Africa and the Middle East to Europe are the same people who fight nail and tooth for the LGBTiq ppl...
If the trend goes on (& it will) some day the lgbtiq won't only lose their rights but also . . ...... .... cause those coming in are against their existence let alone giving them rights.
The Leftists and libs have to decide... lgbtiq or the alien culture...
I would chose the former but that is me

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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby Jorge » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:11 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Yes, but one isn't the result of the other. Women in those countries would be living in the same conditions even if polygamy were illegal there as well.


Strange logic. Polygamy does not subtract from discrimination of women, it adds to it.
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby Jorge » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:22 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:Yes, but one isn't the result of the other. Women in those countries would be living in the same conditions even if polygamy were illegal there as well.
That is why integration can never happen and it is counter productive...
Those advocating to import the whole of Africa and the Middle East to Europe are the same people who fight nail and tooth for the LGBTiq ppl...
If the trend goes on (& it will) some day the lgbtiq won't only lose their rights but also . . ...... .... cause those coming in are against their existence let alone giving them rights.
The Leftists and libs have to decide... lgbtiq or the alien culture...
I would chose the former but that is me


I do not necessarily see like that. It is a matter of extremes like pretty much everything these days. You can't open the doors wide open for anyone who wants to come in, but you can't shut them airtight either.

Integration and assimilation can happen overtime. There are many examples throughout history.

In the case of Europe receiving a massive influx of immigrants from the Middle East and Africa in a short period of time, I agree with you this is not beneficial for either Europe or the immigrants themselves. This is a departure from a more orderly flow received in the past and for obvious reasons it comes with very complex problems that most European nations were not prepared to deal with.
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:45 pm

Jorge wrote:Strange logic. Polygamy does not subtract from discrimination of women, it adds to it.

As it is practiced in these countries, I agree. In the cases you mentioned, it's different. I can also imagine a polygamous society where, for example, women can marry multiple men.

By the way, I don't support polygamy at all. I just disagree that the two ideas are related.
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Re: LGBT Allianz Arena triggers homophobic reactions

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:47 pm

ramsej84 wrote:That is why integration can never happen and it is counter productive...
Those advocating to import the whole of Africa and the Middle East to Europe are the same people who fight nail and tooth for the LGBTiq ppl...
If the trend goes on (& it will) some day the lgbtiq won't only lose their rights but also . . ...... .... cause those coming in are against their existence let alone giving them rights.
The Leftists and libs have to decide... lgbtiq or the alien culture...
I would chose the former but that is me

Sent

Well, if there was integration, it wouldn't be too bad. The problem is when there is no integration at all, and radically different cultures are allowed to co-exist.
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