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How would you beat FC Bayern München

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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby DerKaiser » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:40 am

Aequitas1987 wrote:1. Organized two lines of defence that are tactically closing space without tiring themselves out.
2. Not constant pressing but TIMED hyper-pressing.
3. Dortmund like transitions
4. Manduzukic like striker to track back and put pressure on Kroos/Thiago/Schweinsteiger throughout the game.
5. Clinical finishing / conversion rate.

Its a very tough ask because for a system like the one mentioned above to work not only do all your players have to be tactically sound but there has to be a very high level of understanding and chemistry among them which can only be achieved by having a period that is fairly injury-free. Dortmund currently are the only playstyle that can still beat us but due to their injury problems they are unable to maybe advance their philosophy and instead of being 'gung-ho heavy metal' all the time if they were to bring in some defensive symphony with bouts of pressing in there they could be really scary.

But by that same option Pep is too smart and adjusts really quickly and he could just **** this system up again by playing a ball winner like Javi Martinez as a CAM again also the fact that Muller as a player in the big games is unmarkable at times so no amount of tactical organization can really isolate his wacky runs. Which is why I think this gameplan to beat Bayern can be viable at best over a SINGLE GAME. Over two legs due to Pep's adaptability this Bayern is imho unbeatable.


1.??????
2. Pressing is definately essential as dortmund has tried, they gave up after a while, because like some wise man said here Neuer is a false 1
but as well they showed they are so well drilled with triangle passing / moving off the ball to receive a pass that they may often beat a hardcore pressing
3.??????
4.???? not bayern opponents!
5. Obviously!

P1: irrelevant to one particular game
p2: not addressing the topic
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby Aequitas1987 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:52 am

1. Two lines of defense i.e. when Bayern has the ball there are two lines of defenders they have to go through i.e. the midfielders and then the defense itself.

2. That game was much closer than the scoreline and Dortmund still had a very injury ridden team out there. Granted, using Martinez like Pep did was a tactical masterstroke in that game but what I am proposing is pressing in between the Jupp tactical gameplan vs Barca last year and the typical hard work extreme pressing that Dortmund does for 90 minutes; somewhere in between is the correct balance for pressing. Otherwise you will just run yourself exhausted chasing the ball and Bayern will score late goals like they did in the Dortmund game. If opponents analyze in detail the tendencies of our midfield distributors, Kroos, Thiago, Lahm, Schweinsteiger then they might be able to figure out when to intensively press and where to channel our distribution to create pressing opportunities. I.E. By cutting off passing channels forcing Kroos to distribute to the wings and then pressing, or forcing Kroos to distribute back to CB and then pressing.

3. Transitions is the ability to go from defense to attack, no team in the world does it better than Dortmund. They are the masters of transitioning into a deadly counter-attack. Matched only I would say by the German NT. That level of quality in transitions will be needed the few times opposing teams win the ball.

4. Think of other strikers that can be considered equally hard working; Lewandowski is obviously one but if other coaches can make their strikers track back and pressure the distributors more it could work.

Both paragraphs are relevant.
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby DerKaiser » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:56 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Very interesting topic.

First of all it depends on what team the opponent has available. If it is a team that with effort can realistically challenge Bayern in possession or in pressing, then I'd say they should go ahead and play their own game. I have always believe that teams abandoning their playing style and coming up with something completely new when facing Bayern and Barca is a big contributor to the two clubs' success. One needs to adapt, but there is a limit to how much one can change to be successful.

For other teams, experience has shown long balls and counter attacks to be the best way to stop Bayern. I suppose I would go with a mixture of this and time wasting. :oops:

When I think about it, I can see why Bayern loses so rarely. Very few teams can hope to challenge Bayern in terms of possession or pressing, and only Barca can do it in both. Bayern are no longer as susceptible to counters as they were 2-3 years ago. You can't simply shut down the central midfield (sort of like Dortmund-Real or Bayern-Barca) and think it's enough to nullify Bayern's threat. First of all, the new system makes it very hard to stop all creative midfielders, unless you have enough players of similar quality to match Bayern in the first place. Second, Bayern can create chances through Dante and Boateng (and some day soon, hopefully Badstuber) and also Neuer. Stopping the midfield is not enough.

Then you have the issue of wings. I don't think any team can match Bayern in that area. Sure, Real might have Ronaldo and Bale, who some consider to be superior to Robbery, but I think we are the only club with two world-class and balanced fullbacks. It is very hard for a team to nullify threats from both the left wing and the right wing at the same time.

Lastly, as Aequitas mentioned, there is the Pep factor. The treble winning team had one weakness, which was rarely exposed, and that was Heynckes' ability to adapt mid-game. Even that weakness seems to have disappeared now, and that is why Pep's signing was much, much ( ;) ) more important than many non-Bayern fans think.

P.S. First you say Gotze is just "good", now this thread. Are you Jurgen Klopp looking for advice? :mrgreen:


About Goetze im just tired of overhyping which happens too often. I see a player who can do sweet things when in movement but not from a standing position which is his new situation alot of the times with the change of teams/tactics, and Ribbery and Manzuckic show that every player has to be able to defend! i predict Özil´s downfall because of this! overall id prefer Reus
.And i love the Dortmund team of years past, they taught us how to press!


Long Balls...now for me that is part of an idea... but ...organised long balls...like the X-X-X header onto the second 3rd running madly to the front....but this comes down to a 1v1 situation which alot of teams use against the german national team

vs Barca was a wonderful interesting tactic employed... no pressing on their full backs but as soon as the ball came into the midfield 2v1 pressing

Stopping the wingers: for me quite easy
3 years ago Marcel Schmelzer did it wonderfully Robbens first touch he chopped him down, didnt get a card and continued the ferocity. Problem now with this is it will be expected and WOW Robben has improved his dribbling skills....ergo 2 man

Ribbery: a firecracker ...get him into a fight!
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:08 am

DerKaiser wrote:Stopping the wingers: for me quite easy

Stopping one might be easy, and we've seen it happen a few times, but stopping both at the same time? That might be possible if you get your wingers to play more defensive, having both a fullback and a winger marking each of our wingers, but that would take away a bit of the danger that comes from counterattacks.

1v1 situations are another strong point for Bayern. Obviously, ideally one would create as many of these situations as possible against Bayern, but Neuer is excellent at saving 1v1s. He's often won us 1 or 2 points in a game with his saves. It's another factor which makes it so hard to win against Bayern.
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby DerKaiser » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:17 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
DerKaiser wrote:Stopping the wingers: for me quite easy

Stopping one might be easy, and we've seen it happen a few times, but stopping both at the same time? That might be possible if you get your wingers to play more defensive, having both a fullback and a winger marking each of our wingers, but that would take away a bit of the danger that comes from counterattacks.

1v1 situations are another strong point for Bayern. Obviously, ideally one would create as many of these situations as possible against Bayern, but Neuer is excellent at saving 1v1s. He's often won us 1 or 2 points in a game with his saves. It's another factor which makes it so hard to win against Bayern.


Fanboy!

Ive noticed in the past that if u do a constant 2v1 vs talented players the team "gives up" after a while with that idea and u can continue with "normal defending"
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby DerKaiser » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:20 am

1v1 situations are another strong point for Bayern. Obviously, ideally one would create as many of these situations as possible against Bayern, but Neuer is excellent at saving 1v1s. He's often won us 1 or 2 points in a game with his saves. It's another factor which makes it so hard to win against Bayern.

Has not been tested yet enough.. for example as a coach I´d say if i can get Aquerro vs Dante in 4 x 1v1 atleast 1.4 times he will succeed
in the midfield a talented dribbler has not yet tested Bayern (recently) well ok Bayern Rocks! because when that happened they did immediate 3v1
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:22 am

DerKaiser wrote:if i can get Aquerro vs Dante in 4 x 1v1 atleast 1.4 times he will succeed

Probably, but then he still has to get past Neuer. By 1v1s I was referring to forward vs goalkeeper. Neuer comes out on top the majority of the time, and that's fact. We've probably conceded more goals from set pieces than 1v1s since Neuer joined Bayern.
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby DerKaiser » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:26 am

So lets get a consensus going of what we all agree on....
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby MoFattal » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:33 am

Give Boateng a weed before kickoff.
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby MUTU » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:41 am

Actually it's really easy to beat Bayern Munich...
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby sch0ll7 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:03 pm

I think only injury-less Dortmund can give us a hard game...and would have a good record [maybe 2 losses] in 5 games.

They defend quite well and are orginized when counter attacking. Aequitas`s post.

Man City win was a fluke as we were not 100% concentrated at that game. It was similar to last years Arsenal game.

If we needed 3:0 win against Man City we would have done it.

I just cant see a team dominating against us and being a better team for 90 minutes. Something would need to go terribly wrong with us for other team to be considered better at the end of the game.
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby JJJ » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:07 pm

- Let Bayern score 2 fast goals.
- Just do it, don't know how.
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:57 pm

ramsej84 wrote:With long balls behind the wing backs...
High pressing in their own half.
Closing down the wings and and central attacking midfielder.

I've tried this on football manager 2014 with Borr.Monchengladbach. HT score 1-2 behind, final score 1-4 :oops:


Guys I've just managed to beat FC Bayern at home 5-2 (H.T 3-1) I was win less for 6 consecutive matches and finally I managed to win my 1st 2nd round match...
I played 4-2-3-1... DvB started the match and I played long ball in his direction in fact forcing him making some mistakes.
I've also instructed the players to mark Thiago & Robbery out of the match and to tackle them aggressively.
And obviously we attacked with counter.

P.S also Levandowski announced his transfer to FCB this coming June... :)
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Re: How would you beat FC Bayern München

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:14 am

ramsej84 wrote:Guys I've just managed to beat FC Bayern at home 5-2 (H.T 3-1)

Expect several e-mails and phone calls from European clubs in the coming days. :P
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