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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby tflags » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:08 pm

Is there a profit for the Club that hosts the finals? A couple of mil (if that is the case) wouldn't be bad at all for that bottom line...
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby quaazi » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:56 pm

I'm positive that UEFA is paying some kind of money to the hosting stadium. And there's also many unaffiliated commercial opportunities too. Numbers, though, no idea. :P
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:10 pm

quaazi wrote:And there's also many unaffiliated commercial opportunities too

Including selling Allianz Arena souvenirs :)
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:35 am

UEFA pays some money to the hosts...It is not generated through ticketing as all tickets are sold by UEFA...But the host [in this case us] will get around 10-15 mil€ [after they sold those tickets] if I am thinking correct...as I remember that Real Madrid increased their gate-receipt revenue by 27 mil€ 2 years ago when they hosted a final...but let's say they gained around 15mil€ just from hosting the final.

I am not sure if UEFA also takes the revenues that are generated through cattering like selling drinks, food, snacks etc...or even parking in AA parking garage:)

All in all we will surely be getting some money.

We wont be getting much more money from CL..comparing to last year...as CL money distribution is very complicated and it is important to finish top in your domestic competition so you could earn more money in next years CL competition.

So if we take in account that we finnished 3rd [season 2010/11] in BL...and let's say we get knocked out of the CL in QF [this season]...we will be getting less money than the year before...because in season 2009/10 we won the BL so we got higher percentage of CL money [that is distributed by countries] that was ment for Germany.

This is how it goes...

50% of CL TV money is distrubted according to the last years league position of the club.

In Germany there are only 3 clubs in CL so sharing of those 50% is little different than those in England [40%,30%,20%,10%]...so we have [I think] 50% [Dortmund], 35% Leverkusen, 15% Bayern. [I am not sure of that but I remember KHR saying once we will only be getting 15% [of those 50% that is based on last seasons position in BL] because we finnished third...so I somehow predicted those shares from Dortmund and Leverkusen.

Other 50% depends on the progress in the current season’s Champions League, which is based on the number of games played.

Dormund only played 6 games [as they finnished last they wont be playing any more games]
Let's asume Leverkusen will only play 8 games [as they are playing Barcelona]
And let's asume we will be playing 12 games [reaching the semis]

So if we put that into percantage...[out of my head]

We will get around 45%, Leverkusen will get around 35% and Dortmund will get around 20%

So if we do the math...and we really get to semis...we will still get around the same amount of money from the CL TV market pool as Dortmund..even tough they finished 4th in the group stage:)

Another thing is money we get depending on our performance in CL...

As of 2010–11, UEFA awards €2.1 million to each team in the play-offs round. For reaching the group stage, UEFA awards €3.9 million, plus €550,000 per group match played. A win in the group is awarded €800,000 and a draw is worth €400,000. In addition, UEFA pays teams reaching the first knockout round €3 million, each quarter finalist €3.3 million, €4.2 million for each semi-finalist, €5.6 million for the runners-up and €9 million for the winners

But if we had won the BL last season we would be getting at least 20mil€ more than Dortmund...so that is why winning the BL is very important factor for Ulli Hoeness:)...as he knows that we will be getting a lot more money next season in the CL...and that is why our first aim at the start of the season is to win the BL.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:56 am

sch0ll7 wrote:So if we do the math...and we really get to semis...we will still get around the same amount of money from the CL TV market pool as Dortmund..even tough they finished 4th in the group stage:)


Uhh? By these assumed values, we'd get 45% and Dortmund 20%. That's 2.25 times as much money...
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby tflags » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:57 am

MUTU wrote:
quaazi wrote:And there's also many unaffiliated commercial opportunities too

Including selling Allianz Arena souvenirs :)


Fußball Arena München thank you very munchen. :wink:
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:10 pm

MUTU wrote:Uhh? By these assumed values, we'd get 45% and Dortmund 20%. That's 2.25 times as much money...



yes we will get 2.5x more money than Dortmund [But that is just other 50% of money that is shared according to this years CL games played]...but if we look at first 50% [which is shared according to last years place on the BL table...Dortmund earn 2.5x more than us:)]

so in all 100% we will probably earn similar amount of money from this years CL.

I will do a comparisation between Schalke and us...in last years CL.

But keep in mind that Schalke finnished 2nd in BL the year before [2009/2010] and we won the BL that same season 2009/2010.

Schalke earned total of 39.750.000 €
Bayern earned total of 32.560.000 €


Now here is the money both earned from TV Market Pool in last years CL:

Schalke 18.450.000 €
Bayern 18.362.000 €
Werder 8.656.000 € [just for info]

Total: cca 45.000.000 €

50% of those 45.000.000 € is being distributed basing on the previous seasons league position.
other 50% is being distributed according to CL performance that is being played that season.

But we must keep in mind that Schalke went all the way to the semis and played 12 games in CL...while we only played 8 matches that same season. So that means they played 33% more games than we did..

Now if all three of those clubs were to be knocked out in QF [2010/11 season] so all teams would play 10 games...that means we would get around 50% of those 45.000.000 € which get us 22.500.000 € [50%] ...and Schalke would get around cca 15.000.000 [those 35%] and Werder would get cca 7.500.000 € [15%].

But as Schalke went 2 rounds further than we did...and they played 4 games more than us that means that they got more money from that other 50% that were based on performances. But we got more money from the first 50% that were based on previous season performance in domestic league.

So if we take in account that we finnished 3rd [and not 2nd like Schalke 2 years ago]..and Dortmund finished 1st.
And that we will reach the Semis [just like Schalke did last season] and Dortmund are out in group stage.
We can easily say that we wont earn as much as Schalke did [39.750.000 €] in 2010/11 CL.
And Dortmund wont earn as much as we did [32.560.000 €] in 2010/11 CL. [Dortmund did finish 1st last season just like we did the year before, but the difference is they dropped out at group stage while we made it to knock out stages and played 2 games more.]

If we take that in account we can say that Dortmund will earn around 30.000.000€ ...and if we reach the Semis...we will earn around 35.000.000€ [Less than Schalke did last season]

But if we had won the BL last season...and we reached the Semis this year we would get at least 43.000.000 € [which is 8.000.000 € more] which is a lot of money:)

I hope someone understands this:)...it is not well written:D
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:12 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
MUTU wrote:Uhh? By these assumed values, we'd get 45% and Dortmund 20%. That's 2.25 times as much money...



yes we will get 2.5x more money than Dortmund [But that is just other 50% of money that is shared according to this years CL games played]...but if we look at first 50% [which is shared according to last years place on the BL table...Dortmund earn 2.5x more than us:)]

so in all 100% we will probably earn similar amount of money from this years CL.

Quite unfair. I am sure far more people will have watched Bayern matches in CL that Dortmund's.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:44 pm

MUTU wrote:Quite unfair. I am sure far more people will have watched Bayern matches in CL that Dortmund's.


:)

i think it is quite fair as you must earn that money:)

Just for info...

I calculated app. amount of Champions League TV money that is being shared amongst the popular 5 leagues.

1. England clubs [4 clubs] get around 84.000.000 €
2. Italian clubs [4 clubs] get around 52.000.000 €
3. Spanish clubs [4 clubs] get around 48.200.000 €
4. German clubs [3 clubs] get around 45.500.000 €
5. French clubs [3 clubs] get around 27.000.000 €

If there are less clubs in the CL competition...like in this seasons CL there were only 3 italian and 3 spanish clubs, 2 french clubs...that amount is being distributed between those clubs that perticipate...which means more money for those clubs.

If we lost against Zurich..than most of the 45.500.000€ would be distributed between Leverkusen and Dortmund.

Another info that I managed to find is that from 2012/13 season German clubs will get around 20-25% increase due to new better improved deal between ZDF and Sky Deutschland...as they will pay more money for the broadcasting rights from 2012 to 2015.

But we must know that we will have 4 clubs in CL next season and that TV Market Pool will be distributed between 4 clubs [40%, 30%, 20%, 10%] just like in England.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:15 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:Another info that I managed to find is that from 2012/13 season German clubs will get around 20-25% increase due to new better improved deal between ZDF and Sky Deutschland...as they will pay more money for the broadcasting rights from 2012 to 2015.

But we must know that we will have 4 clubs in CL next season and that TV Market Pool will be distributed between 4 clubs [40%, 30%, 20%, 10%] just like in England.

Current maximum participating clubs: 3
Next season maximum participating clubs: 4
Increase for maximum participating clubs next season: 33%

Current minimum participating clubs: 2
Next season minimum participating clubs: 3
Increase for minimum participating clubs next season: 50%

All in all, a fair increase would have been around 40% (as sometimes the team that has to go through qualifiers does not manage to go through). The 40% increase would keep the average income identical with participating clubs. 20-25% is too poor of an increase!
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:56 pm

yes but that still means if we finish 1st this season and we go to semis next season in CL...we will be getting more money than we would get if we would now without that increase:)
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:13 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:yes but that still means if we finish 1st this season and we go to semis next season in CL...we will be getting more money than we would get if we would now without that increase:)

No. In fact I had my calculations wrong but by all means your statement above is wrong.

Let's say the Bundesliga currently gets x amount of money.

Now you said that we will get 20% to 25% more, which means we will get start getting from 1.2x to 1.25x.

Best case scenario (we get 25% increase):
Current 1st place: 50% of x = 0.5x
New 1st place: 40% of 1.25x = 0.5x (same amount of money as before :|)

Current 2nd place: 35% of x = 0.35x
New 2nd place: 30% of 1.25x = 0.375x (more money :))

Current 3rd place: 15% of x = 0.15x
New 3rd place: 20% of 1.25x = 0.25x (much more money, which is fair seeing as they now qualify directly :))

Current 4th place: nothing
New 4th place: 10% of 1.25x = 0.125x (now they qualify :))

Worst case scenario (we get 20% increase):
Current 1st place: 50% of x = 0.5x
New 1st place: 40% of 1.2x = 0.48x (less money than before :()

Current 2nd place: 35% of x = 0.35x
New 2nd place: 30% of 1.2x = 0.36x (more money :))

Current 3rd place: 15% of x = 0.15x
New 3rd place: 20% of 1.2x = 0.24x (much more money, which is fair seeing as they now qualify directly :))

Current 4th place: nothing
New 4th place: 10% of 1.2x = 0.12x (now they qualify)
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:57 pm

yes but you forgot to calculate that only half is 40% and the other half of X can be more than that...because 1 team can get much more than the other because 1 can play in the finals...other can be dropped in the last 16 and two can be knocked out of the group stages...
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:11 pm

It wont be a big bump that is for sure...but if our performance is great [and others not so great:)] and we do great in the league it can be extra few millions.

We will be getting more than Barcelona and Real Madrid get from CL...only English clubs will get more money from TV Market Pool...but it is more equaly distributed because almost all 4 teams qualify for at least last 16...so one does not get much bigger share than the other [from those other 50% that is performance related].

And it will be good for BL that 4 of its clubs receive that extra CL money.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:30 am

MUTU...

I found a distribution formula for German clubs in CL....but it was for season 2004/2005...I guess it is same now.

40% / 35% / 25%

But when i come to think about it....I am still not sure of it...because I do remember KHR mentioning those 15%...but cant remember in which sense it was used:)

But if those figures stand than it is more equaly distributed and increase of 25% would mean that clubs will actually benefit from it.
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