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FC Bayern Finances

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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby raz25 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:32 pm

I've lived in Germany for 4 months so I got to catch on a little bit on how they do things and what their mentality is. I can tell you that everything Scholl said it's true. I've met a few Bayern fans and asked them why don't they get sky subscription so they can watch their favorite team's matches. They all answered me the same way: why would I pay 50-60 euros a month when I can just go to my favorite pub to watch it or watch later 15 minutes of highlights from all the matches?

And if I remember correctly, there are 2 matches from 2. Bundesliga from every spieltag broadcasted live. They would often mention that a lot of the times those games are better than some of the games from 1. Bundesliga, something that I agree with them. Should I also mention that they get to watch the CL play-off matches of the german team and the Europa League matches?

I also wouldn't pay that much money, so I understand them. But the last time I've been there, I saw sky advertising like hell and they had a promotion, something like the first 3 months you only pay 30 euros, still not good enough but it's an improvement I guess. I've been at somebody who owned the sky receiver and I was searching for some channels and I was like :shock: channel #600, channel #1500... I asked her, " WTH, 1500 channels?! " , " More :) " she said. That's something I never saw in their advertisments, it's definitely something they could find use of :) .
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:59 pm

Maybe they should be more strict with Pubs like they are in England where pubs need to pay around 10.000 € / year to show EPL matches.
I know it is not a good thing for the fans and maybe they should consider something else like offering fans a package of BL matches showing only matches of the club they support for a affordable fee like 15-20€/month or something but again than they would not attract people to watch other channels they offer :)

In Germany where DFL are more fans oriented than in other leagues should still keep their good relations with the fans but should consider the money problem.

In England fans pay 2-3x more for their season tickets but that does not stop them from getting so much money from TV deals.
So maybe what they need to do in Germany is to keep the ticket prices low as they are in order to keep good understanding with the fans but on the other side force them to pay some money if they want to watch the BL on TV.

If fans in England can pay 3x more money for tickets and for their SKY packages why couldnt people in Germany pay at least 50% of what English fans pay to watch their clubs. And if you consider that Germans earn more money per capita it shouldnt be any problem.

Dont wanna sound too smart as I dont live in Germany and I dont have the right to say how much money should they pay :)...As I see all Bayern games for free and I like it that way:)
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:43 pm

I think what it basically comes down to is: English fans are prepared to spend more money than German fans to watch their favourite teams. And despite Germany having a larger population, England churns out more money from the fans.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:53 pm

MUTU wrote:I think what it basically comes down to is: English fans are prepared to spend more money than German fans to watch their favourite teams. And despite Germany having a larger population, England churns out more money from the fans.


I dont think that they are prepared to spend more money than the German fans...but they are forced to do it.

I am 100% sure that Allianz Arena would still be sold out every game if our board decided to make the ticket prices higher every year like in England.

The difference is that people who own English clubs are not/were not hard core fans of that club as you have Abramovic, Glazers etc...
Clubs like Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and many others are owned by people that bought them just for financial reasons and glamour. They really dont care for the fans. Their only goal is to get as much money they can and to make a revenue growth year after year.

In Germany it is a different story...Even tough teams like Bayern, Schalke, Dortmund and others could sell 100.000 tickets for more than half of the games they dont raise their ticket prices because the club is also owned by the club members. And club members are mostly royal fans.
Bayern has around 150.000 club members that pay for their membership and are also owners of the club. So it is different than in England as there they dont have any influence on the ticket prices.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:41 am

Here is football’s Top 20 in full:

1st
Real Madrid
Last year: 1st
£359.1m
(£341.9m) Up 9.2%
Revenue: €438.6m Last year €401.4m

Real top the money league for a sixth consecutive year, despite exiting the Champions League at the first knockout stage once again and trailing in behind Barcelona in La Liga. Able to negotiate their own individual broadcasting deal, they brought in £129.9m (€158.7m) which is more than the total revenue for half of these top 20 clubs. Matchday revenue increased by 27%, helped by the Bernabeu playing host to last season’s Champions League final.

2nd
Barcelona
Last year: 2nd
£325.9m
(£311.7m) Up 4.6%
Revenue: €398.1m (€365.9m)

Spanish league champions for a second year running, but they lost ground off the field to fierce rivals Real – though they did move away from Manchester United in third place. A 9% growth in commercial revenue took them up to £100m (€122.2m) in that area alone, with matchdays worth £80.1m (€97.8m) and broadcasting deals a further £145.8m (€178.1m). Selling shirt sponsorship for the first time for a record £135m (€165m) over five and a half years should help bridge the gap to Real.

3rd
Manchester United
Last year: 3rd
£286.4m
(£278.5m) Up 2.8%
Revenue €349.8m (€327m)

The Carling Cup was the only silverware on show at Old Trafford after season 2009-10, but the club continued to have steady growth financially. Broadcasting accounted for 37% of all revenue at £104.8m (€128m), a 5% rise from the previous season. Commercial revenue grew by 16% helped by deals with Turkish Airlines, Betfair and several telecommunications companies. Matchday revenue fell by 8% due to comparatively early exits from the Champions League and FA Cup.

4th
Bayern Munich
Last year: 4th
£264.5m
(£246.6m) Up 7.3%
Revenue €323m (€289.5m)

A German league and cup double and a run to the Champions League final ensured Bayern closed the gap on Manchester United in fourth in the money league. Revenue exceeded €300m for the first time, helped in no small part by a 20% hike in broadcast revenue thanks to their extended Champions League run. However, Bayern topped the commercial revenue league – amassing £141.6m (€172.9m) on that front alone.

5th
Arsenal
Last year: 5th
£224.4m
(£224m) Up 0.002%
Revenue €274.1m (€263m)

Arsenal best depict the difference in exchange rates of Sterling to Euros from last year to this. By Sterling, their revenue barely grew at all; by Euros, they managed a 4% overall growth. However, the sale of property at their former home of Highbury raised £157m (€192m) and is not included in this money league figure, which is restricted to football revenues. Matchday revenues fell due to fewer games at the Emirates in 2009-10, but still accounted for 42% of Arsenal’s overall total.

6th
Chelsea
Last year: 6th
£209.5m
(£206.4m) Up 1.5%
€255.9m (€242.3m)

Double winners for the first time in the club’s history, and yet Chelsea’s matchday revenue fell by 10%, something that has never happened in Roman Abramovich’s time at the club. An early exit from the Champions League certainly hindered progress in that area, but commercial revenue (up 7%) and broadcasting revenue (up 9%) more than made up for that shortfall.


7th
AC Milan
Last year: 10th
£193.1m
(£167.4m) Up 15.4%
€235.8m (€196.5m)

Participating in the Champions League again after their absence in 2008-09 certainly helped Milan climb the money league. To put it in perspective, their run to the last 16 of the Champions League earned €23.4m in broadcast revenue – their participation in the Uefa Cup the previous year brought €400,000. Milan sit third overall in broadcasting revenue, thanks mainly to being able to negotiate their own domestic deal. But that will end when the next money league is announced, so expect a drop back down this table in 2012.

8th
Liverpool
Last year: 7th
£184.5m
(£184.8m) Dn 0.002%

€225.3m (€217m)

Attendances at Anfield fell by 2% in 2009-10, and yet matchday revenue was slightly up on the previous year. Broadcasting revenue was up by 7%, aided by reaching the last four of the Europa League, and accounted for 42% of their overall revenue total. Just as they have done on the field, Manchester City and Tottenham could overtake Liverpool in the money league next year.


9th
Inter
Last year: 9th
£184.1m
(£167.4m) Up 10%

€224.8m (€196.5m)

Success unlike no other they’ve ever tasted on the field, and yet Inter remain resolutely ninth in the money league. Matchday revenue increased by an incredible 37%, but is still only the 12th highest of any club. Like Milan, their broadcasting revenue dominates at 62% of the final figure, and the £112.9m that brought in is third behind only Real Madrid and Barcelona.

10th
Juventus
Last year: 8th
£167.8m
(£173.1m) Dn 3.1%

€205m (€203.2m)

A drop of two places from last year, and the Old Lady is no longer the top revenue-earning club in Italy. Matchdays account for just 8% of total revenues, and it can only be hoped that the opening of their new stadium next season boosts that element. With a shared broadcasting deal coming into effect, and this season’s absence from the Champions League, expect Juventus to fall out of the top 10 next year.

11th
Manchester City
Last year: 20th
£125.1m
(£87m) Up 43.8%
€152.8m (€102.2m)

The biggest climbers in the list and with a whopping 43.8% overall increase on their 2008-09 figures, City are becoming major players thanks to growth in all areas. Commercial revenue more than doubled to £46.7m (€57m) while matchdays grew by 17%. The interest in Shiekh Mansour's revolution has also contributed to a boost in broadcast revenue, with more City games being shown live on television meaning an extra £5.8m coming into to the club. To continue their rapid rise, though, they will need tangible success on the field.

12th
Tottenham
Last year: 15th
£119.8m
(£113m) Dn 3.1%
€146.3m (€132.7m)

They may have edged out Manchester City for a Champions League spot, but the full effects of that will not be felt until next year's money league is announced. Broadcast revenue rose to £51.5m thanks to finishing fourth and thereby earning more of the Premier League's redistributed prize fund, but matchday revenue remains constrained by White Hart Lane's limited capacity - an issue that the Spurs board are courting controversy with as they attempt to find a new home.

13th
Hamburg
Last year: 11th
£119.7m
(£124.9m) Dn 4.2%

€146.2m (€146.7m)

The North German club remain the second highest paid Bundesliga club, but the rise of Tottenham and Manchester City sees them drop two places. The club reached the semi-finals of the Europa League, where they lost out to Fulham, but could only finish seventh in the Bundesliga. A lack of participation in Europe this season means that Hamburg could struggle to retain their money league position.

14th
Lyon
Last year: 13th
£119.6m
(£118.9m) Up 0.1%

€146.1m (€139.6m)

The seven-time Ligue 1 winners reached the semi-finals of the Champions League for the first time last season which contributed to an 11% increase in matchday revenue to £20.3m (€24.8m). However, matchday cash accounted for just 17% of the club’s income and Lyon's average league attendance of 35,767 is amongst the lowest of all the money league clubs.


15th
Marseille
Last year: 14th
£115.5m
(£113.5m) Up 1.8%

€141.1m (€133.2m)

The Cote d'Azur club may have dropped one place but it has narrowed the gap with French rivals Olympique Lyonnais. Winning their first league title since 1992 secured a place in the Champions League where they have progressed to the knock-out stages. Broadcasting revenues account for 50% of the club’s total revenues - £58m(€70.8m). The growth on the season before came from an increase in cash from the Champions League and Europa League.

16th
Schalke 04
Last year: 16th
£114.5m
(£106m) Up 8%

€139.8m (€124.5m)

With an average league attendance of 61,800 in the Veltins Arena and more than 90,000 members, Schalke enjoy a formidable following in Germany. Commercial revenue accounts for more than half of Schalke's turnover thanks to lucrative deals with sports rights agency Infront Germany, Gazprom, the club’s main sponsor, and adidas, the club’s kit sponsor, helping the club net an extraordinary £64.7m (€79m) of commercial revenue. Qualifying for the knockout stage of this season's Champions League should see them rise further next year.

17th
Atletico Madrid
Last year: 18th
£101.9m
(£89.4m) Up 14%
€124.5m (€105.0m)

Atletico Madrid won their first major trophy for 14 years when they beat Fulham in the Europa League final last May. Their performances in European competition also led to a significant windfall of £50.9m (€62.2m) in broadcasting revenue - accounting for 50% of their total incomings. However Atletico’s ninth place finish in La Liga in 2009-10 was not enough to seal Champions League qualification whilst their defence of the Europa League fizzled out with a group stage exit, meaning it's unlikely they will remain in the top 20 next year.

18th
AS Roma
Last year: 12th
£100.5m
(£124.7m) Dn 19.4%
€122.7m (€146.4m)

AS Roma are the biggest fallers from this year's money league, falling six places to 18th. This was largely down to their failure to qualify for the Champions League for the first time in four years. AS Roma pocketed the second lowest matchday revenue - just £15.6m (€19 m) - of any money league club (they narrowly beat Juventus). However they finished second in Serie A last season and their return to the Europe's top table in the Champions League should see the Giallorossi head in the other direction next year.

19th
VfB Stuttgart
Last year: n/a
£94m
(£85m) Up 10.6%

€114.8m (€99.8 m)

After finishing third in the 2008-09 season, VfB Stuttgart qualified for the Champions League before eventually going out to Barcelona in the last 16 last year. The run in the competition however helped them net record revenues. What differentiates VfB from other Bundesliga clubs in the money league is that its largest revenue source came from broadcasting (42%) as opposed to commercial income. Once renovation of their Mercedes-Benz Arena is complete, the Germans hope an increased capacity of 60,000 from 56,000 will boost growth.

20th
Aston Villa
Last year: n/a
£89.6m
(£84.3m) Up 6.3%
€109.4 m (€99.0 m)

Aston Villa return to the money league for the first time since 2003-04, replacing Newcastle who spent last season in the Championship. Their return to the top 20 was thanks in part to Wembley appearances in both domestic cup competitions. The club also finished in sixth place for a third successive season, which gave a healthy broadcast revenue of £52.1m (€63.6m) - 58% of their overall revenue. The club also opted to promote Acorns, a local children’s hospice, on its shirt rather than a fee-paying brand and so their commercial revenue of £13.1m (€16m) was comparatively low.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:45 am

So our revenue was 323 mil € as we said before :)


It is an achievement and we are now way infront of Arsenal on 5th and are getting closer to Man Utd on 3rd spot.


Our commercial revenue [€172.9m] was great again and we managed to be top in that aspect infront of Real, Barca and Man Utd...thanks to our board and our commercial partners we show our economic strenght once again and are making high standards for everyone else who wants to challange us in that aspect.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby hgb09 » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:26 pm

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editor ... rld-no1-in
Nice article: "Bayern Munich World No.1 In Commercial Revenue – Here Is How & Why"
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:57 pm

According to a study by market research companies Sport+Markt and PR Marketing, Bayern ranked 4th in merchandising and licensing business, after Real Madrid, Barcelona and Liverpool.

The Spanish Liga is similarly ranked first, ahead of the English Premier League. The Bundesliga took 3rd place ahead of the Serie A, despite having 2 less teams in the league (Bundesliga has 18 clubs; Serie A has 20).

Source: http://www.sport1.de/de/fussball/fussba ... 55459.html
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby Koma » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:12 am

It's incredible how Bayern is so profitable and good in financial sense. I mean, it's not that we have some weak wages like Arsenal does, we have players with really big wages and when you see other clubs, it's realy amazing. I hope the management will keep on doing what they did so far, it's great for the Bayern and the fans.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby MUTU » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:48 pm

FC Bayern has the 12th highest average salary for sports clubs (i.e. not just soccer). I'm assuming that the figures below are the average player wage and does not denote the perhaps-more-important total salary bill.

1) FC Barcelona - 5.5 million euros
2) Real Madrid - 5 million euros
3) New York Yankees - 4.6 million euros
4) Los Angeles Lakers - 4.5 million euros
5) Orlando Magic - 4.4 million euros
6) FC Chelsea - 4.1 million euros
7) Inter Milan - 4.1 million euros
8) Boston Red Sox - 4.1 million euros
9) Denver Nuggets - 4.1 million euros
10) Manchester City - 4 million euros
11) Utah Jazz - 4 million euros
12) Bayern Munich - 4 million euros
...
56) Schalke 04 - 2.4 million euros
...
76) Werder Bremen - 1.9 million euros

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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby vijay92 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:42 pm

MUTU wrote:FC Bayern has the 12th highest average salary for sports clubs (i.e. not just soccer). I'm assuming that the figures below are the average player wage and does not denote the perhaps-more-important total salary bill.

1) FC Barcelona - 5.5 million euros
2) Real Madrid - 5 million euros
3) New York Yankees - 4.6 million euros
4) Los Angeles Lakers - 4.5 million euros
5) Orlando Magic - 4.4 million euros
6) FC Chelsea - 4.1 million euros
7) Inter Milan - 4.1 million euros
8) Boston Red Sox - 4.1 million euros
9) Denver Nuggets - 4.1 million euros
10) Manchester City - 4 million euros
11) Utah Jazz - 4 million euros
12) Bayern Munich - 4 million euros
...
56) Schalke 04 - 2.4 million euros
...
76) Werder Bremen - 1.9 million euros

Source: http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/bunde ... ayern.html


Where is Man Utd and Ac Milan surely they pay more to their players than we do
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:59 pm

AC and Milan are not that of a big spenders as you might think.

AC Milan only buys "out of favor" players in the last 7-8 years and they pay them less...Robinho, Ronaldinho, Ibrahimovic, Prince, Zambrotta etc...

While Man Utd have quite few old-school players that are loyal and are not asking for big wages...Giggs, Scholes, O`Shea, Fletcher etc..and some young like Fabio, Rafael, Chicharito...that dont get payed much.

The only 3 or 4 that are payed as superstars are Rooney, Rio, Vidic [after his new contract] and probably Berbatov.
And they hardly buy any superstars in recent years...the only one they bought last time around was Berbatov and even he was not a typical superstar:)

That is why I was saying that once Ferguson leaves they will be doomed as players like Scholes, Giggs, Van der Saar, O`Shea and others will retire and they will need to splash money in order to perform. The only person that is holding them together is Ferguson.

The same thing goes for Inter and AC Milan...from next season they will need to look for their "salaries" as they wont be able to splash 150-200 mil€ just for salaries...as they dont earn as much as we do.
Last season Inter`s salary per income rate was 102%...which means that they spent more for salaries than they earned...and that is just salaries we are talking about. While we have a ratio around 50%...but we earn aroun 100mil€ more than Inter.

So clubs like Inter, AC Milan, Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Roma etc...wont be able to compete with us in the future as their owners like Moratti wont be able to cover the minus of more than 100mil€ year after year.

And It will be quite interesting to see what will happen with Inter and AC MIlan as their squad is 30+ and will need to buy at least 5-6 first team players in next 2 years. and that costs money if you want to buy quality.

Inter has 15 players that are over 30 years old in their squad...that means they will need to buy 15 players in the next 3-4 years...and believe me they wont splash 20+ mil€ for every player as they are used to now as they wont be permitted...so I reckon Bundesliga clubs like Schalke, Dortmund, Hamburg etc... will take advantage of that and we will be more competitive year after year.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby vijay92 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:15 pm

Yh but still the wages of a rooney, berbatov, Ibrahimovic, robinho would be immense. The fair play rule would definetly suit us in the future.

I read a recent article where Chelsea will take another five years to satisfy the rules and man city will take even more.
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby sch0ll7 » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:35 pm

they can take as much as they want...but while taking care of it they wont be playing in the CL :)
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Re: FC Bayern Finances

Postby tflags » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:51 am

There is a very interesting article in TZ today with an interview with chief financial honcho Karl Hopfner regarding FCB's transfer season. One interesting topic is the fact that even without the Vidal deal, this will go down in history as the third largest player purchase for FC Bayern. I wonder if that number would have gone up if the 'infidel' had agreed to come (please note I have nothing against the Chilean, I just found the appellative interesting...)

Then there is the realization that we are finally playing on a Financial Fair Play even field. I tend to agree with Hopfner in the fact that other than Coentrao and Sanchez, this transfer season has been uncharacteristically quiet. Even then some of these transfers could have easily been paid for just by trophy revenue alone. I just see no other conclusion that clubs are finally listening to their accountants AND their legal departments: No respect for accounting rules? No European license for you Sheik.

There is never a good article about FCB's finances without talking about the Lions, or at least that was the case until recently. TSV 1860 has paid for their loan, with interests, on July 15th. No need to call die collectors... This chapter is finally closed. Good, I was already dreaming of a bucket full of blue paint on our newly laid Stadia lawn...

Every time I read FCB is one of the most financially sound sports institutions on earth I kind of wonder why our transfer budget is so dim by Spanish standards. I mean lets be honest here; Coentrao's net transfer cost was probably worth all of our Neuer, Usamis and Boatengs PLUS change. Right?

Then I remembered seeing an article back in December about how much we spend on that loan we took for the Allianz Arena. It said something around EUR30 mil plus per year. I kind of wondered until when did we have to bear those payments.

Last night trying to figure out a new football computer game I discovered the answer by sheer coincidence. FCB's loan runs until December 31st, 2015. A cool 3 million a month that comes to roughtly 36 mil per year. That sounds to me that in about four years time, provided we don't do a River Plate on our fans, Mr. Nerlinger & Co. will be a heck more busy during transfer season. Say, how about Neuer AND Coentrao type players per season? Together! We need to replace Robben with Sanchez on a trophy less season? No problemo, to whom do I right that check to? Man it will be nice to be a Bayern fan in 2016...

http://www.tz-online.de/sport/fussball/ ... 32901.html
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