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Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby dambun » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:54 pm

Element wrote:"You can keep Possession football if you want but If you have possession, you should make something out of it,'' Beckenbauer said. "Just pushing the ball around and playing it back to the goalkeeper is surely not the idea of possession.


To say that our ball-possession-based-play (bpbp) is only passing the ball between defenders and GK, and to say that our we are not doing anything good in the field, is a disgrace to LvG and Bayern's recent developments.... THEN why on earth, do we have the most number of goal chances in the BL???

Our players have improved a lot as individuals and as a team since LvG has become our coach... The only thing we really did wrong in recent months is not improving our defense in the transfer window.... And now when our team is not in his best form, he hits us with such a critical statement!!!

I hate this!!! Every time we are in a bad situation, he only tries to separate himself from the club.... when he should be extending a helping hand... I hate that he always does this...
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby shileno » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:36 pm

We have a lot of goal chances because the defense of BL teams are not that good and because every BL player feel something else when they're against Bayern. Against a big club of Europe is a whole different thing.

We did played good at some point last season (without Robbery), but it was only because of:

1. MVB was in amazing form.
2. Our defense was calm and focused.
3. We played offensive football, and the team was used to play like that.

Considering MVB became crap again, all the team became crap. I think the big mistake was not getting a proper replacement for Robbery and bring Kroos back. Our defense was the reason we lost games last season, but why lose when we could score 2 or 3 goals for match? Muller needs help to do good as RM, he needs someone like Ozil, but since we don't that type of football, he should have been our first striker, next to Klose/Olic/Gomez. Fast wingers with good dribbling, maybe someone like Marin, Gervinho, Babel, Mata, or someone that plays like them. What happened to that fast counterattack-based football we had? :|

F*ck, we'll end just like Liverpool :lol:
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:08 pm

dambun wrote:To say that our ball-possession-based-play (bpbp) is only passing the ball between defenders and GK, and to say that our we are not doing anything good in the field, is a disgrace to LvG and Bayern's recent developments....


I have to disagree. I think he is right.

Our idea of possession play is to keep the ball, tire out the opponents, and once they're tired, go for goal. Sure, that's all good and stuff, but just think. Look how many minutes we are wasting in every game. Apart from our poor form, I think this is the main reason why we're hardly scoring at all.

How many times have we seen Badstuber pass back to Butt? How many times have we seen MVB get the ball and move up the field with it, only to turn back at the halfway line and pass to DVB?

We're capable of keeping possession really well, that's clear. But our system is flawed, it does not give us enough time to score because we only really try in the last 20 minutes. It's like the game is 20 minutes long instead of 90 minutes. Last season, this was not a problem, because apart from this "pass the ball around and attack in the last 20 minutes", we also had Robben and an in-form Olic, who could score from counters.

We should keep possession, but we should change our tactics. We should play possession more similar to Barca. As in, keep the ball to make the defenders come out for it, which opens up space to create chances. NOT trying to dribble into the goal.

I am not saying we should copy Barca's style. Both systems are flawed, although ours is worse (I think someone else already brought this up before). We should find a balance between the two.
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby dambun » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:17 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Our idea of possession play is to keep the ball, tire out the opponents, and once they're tired, go for goal. Sure, that's all good and stuff, but just think. Look how many minutes we are wasting in every game. Apart from our poor form, I think this is the main reason why we're hardly scoring at all.


Part of our plan is to keep possession and to make the opponents run a lot from left to right and vice versa... not only to make our opponents tired, but also to damage their structured defense and hit at the right moment...

But also, we are the team that created the most scoring chances, despite having many of our best players injured or not fully fit (WC tiredness)... This should count for something... We are doing some good things too... But somehow we couldn't manage to score till now...

To say that our playing style is all passing between the defenders is not fair... I know that we should and we could do some things better upfront... but to destroy a young team's confidence in the middle of the crisis by denying their positive features, it is not a proper choice, IMO.

shileno wrote:We have a lot of goal chances because the defense of BL teams are not that good and because every BL player feel something else when they're against Bayern. Against a big club of Europe is a whole different thing.


This is not good reasoning Shileno...

First of all if BL team's defenses are weak, it's weak for every team... we still manage to create more chances than the other teams...

Second... We created a lot of chances in Europe, too...

Third... Even if BL defenses were weak, every team plays with double-motivation against Bayern... Their players run much more... And many of them just park the bus for long periods of the game... So their defenses will be much better against Bayern... Still, Bayern has created more goal-scoring chances!....
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:23 pm

dambun wrote:To say that our playing style is all passing between the defenders is not fair... I know that we should and we could do some things better upfront... but to destroy a young team's confidence in the middle of the crisis by denying their positive features, it is not a proper choice, IMO.


It is not only passing, they do other stuff as well (especially MVB :lol: ) But let's face it, they don't shoot in 90% of the situations. We could have had 3x as many as shots in every game so far.
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby dambun » Fri Oct 15, 2010 3:30 pm

MvB is exactly one of the reasons that we haven't been successful so far...
He kills and slows our game.... replace him, and we'll be playing much better soon....

That's what we need to look into, and change, not our entire footballing philosophy...
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby Element » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:03 pm

Both of FCBAYERNMUNCHEN and DAMBUN are right


but

There were many games were DVB had the highest ball contacts of our team with over 100+ contacts


so there is something wrong
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:24 pm

dambun wrote:MvB is exactly one of the reasons that we haven't been successful so far...
He kills and slows our game.... replace him, and we'll be playing much better soon....

That's what we need to look into, and change, not our entire footballing philosophy...


This is very true
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby AvatarX » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:53 pm

Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis:

I have 3 suggestions to do it:
1. Make Schweini our captain and bench MVB for Tymo who would help our defense and our offense (giving Schweini the freedom to do it).
2. Switch to 4-2-2-2. Until both Robbery are back we need to have 2 strikers. Put Muller as RM (or ST and Altintop as RM), Kroos as LM.
3. Fire Nerlinger and hire Kahn. We need someone who can stand and speak to our board with passion for FCB and not someone who is always afraid to spend a euro for the good of the team.
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby shileno » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:40 am

dambun wrote:This is not good reasoning Shileno...

First of all if BL team's defenses are weak, it's weak for every team... we still manage to create more chances than the other teams...

Second... We created a lot of chances in Europe, too...

Third... Even if BL defenses were weak, every team plays with double-motivation against Bayern... Their players run much more... And many of them just park the bus for long periods of the game... So their defenses will be much better against Bayern... Still, Bayern has created more goal-scoring chances!....


BL teams had nothing to do against Robbery, where Fiore, ManU and Inter could, and they're not as good as Chelsea or Barca. Now they see us as another average team, and that's why teams like Hoffenheim, Kaiserlautern, Dortmund and Mainz f*cked us.

Another point is, do we create good goal chances? Of course, our strikers are not in good form at all, but you need to do the things in the right way. I haven't seen a good play end in goal for a long time.
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby nur4bayern » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:13 am

Well, if we're talking real short-term we have to take in account the current injury list (Van Buyten, Breno, Contento, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Van Bommel, Ribéry, Klose, Olic) and determine a good enough starting XI that has any chance of winning. I suggest: Butt, Lahm, Micho, Badstuber, Pranjic, Kroos, Tymo, Ottl, Altintop, Muller, Gomez. That sure doesn't look like much of a Bayern Munchen team to me but it'll have to do.

More importantly than formations though is the players on the pitch need to play with the passion that made them BL champions last year and CL vice-champions. I have not seen that desire at all this year. I see it in Mainz and Dortmund but not with our players. Either LvG motivates them in the locker room or KHR and Uli will motivate their collective asses out of Munchen. No one individual is more important than the club. No one individual wins championships (although a good argument could be made of Robben last season). This group of players must come together as a team right f*cking now or we'll be seeing a huge exodus during the winter transfer window and most certainly next summer. Bayern must play CL soccer every year. That is what's expected by the board and the fans. Also, if Bayern don't earn a CL spot we certainly can't expect any top players wanting to play for us next year. Winning has to start now and continue for a long time.

Time to step it up, gentlemen, or it's auf weidersehen.
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:07 am

Kroos, Muller, and Gomez have to star in the next few matches while we're in this injury crisis. Of course, the whole team has to play well, and as mentioned before, with passion, but a lot depends on this trio. We need to start scoring, and we need to start scoring soon.
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby Zer0 Bayern » Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:43 pm

It's all about the line-up....

---------------------------Butt-----------------------
Lahm-----------Micho-------Badstuber----Pranjic
-----------------Schweini-----Tymo-----------------
-Müller------------------Kroos-------------Altintop-
-------------------------Gómez----------------------

With all our injuries, this is the best we can do right now.
Anyway, if MvB and DvB are not playing, we have 90% of chances to win.
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby AvatarX » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:56 pm

Zer0 Bayern wrote:Anyway, if MvB and DvB are not playing, we have 90% of chances to win.

=D> =D> =D>
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Re: Discussion: Short-Term Planning to Get Out of the Crisis

Postby nur4bayern » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:11 pm

Here's the week #9 schedule with my comments thrown in just for fun: :lol:

Hamburger SV : FC Bayern München Playing away to Hamburg will be tough but not impossible
Eintracht Frankfurt : FC Schalke 04 Schalke need a win badly
Borussia M'gladbach : Werder Bremen I'll be rooting for 'Gladbach
SC Freiburg : 1. FC Kaiserslautern FCK, the only thing missing is U
Hannover 96 : 1. FC Köln Pulling for Prince Poldi
FC Nürnberg : VfL Wolfsburg I don't like Steve McLaren, go FCN
Borussia Dortmund : 1899 Hoffenheim Prefer Hoff 'cause I don't want Dortmund to be #1 too long
Bayer 04 Leverkusen : FSV Mainz 05 Leverkusen will win at home, Mainz reign is over
VfB Stuttgart : FC St. Pauli Gotta love those Pirates, but VfB need to win

Has nothing to do with short-term plans BUT if things go my way we'd see Bayern move up to a tie with Hoffenheim (if they lose tomorrow) and Hamburg for 4th place! Dortmund and Mainz would be on 21 points, Leverkusen 18 and Bayern 14. That's a lot better than the 12 place spot we were in after last week.
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