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Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.
 

Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:10 pm

theundead wrote:Dont know if this is the right place to post this.

sport1 says that we hired Mueller Wohlfart's son. [source]


From the Google translation of the article, it seems that he will always be present with the team and will be the first person to analyze any injuries/knocks.

Perhaps somebody who knows German could clarify better.

http://instagram.com/p/xmT_BrkqEb/

It seems like Pep and HWMW came to a mutually satisfactory agreement on that issue.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:17 pm

theundead wrote:Dont know if this is the right place to post this.

sport1 says that we hired Mueller Wohlfart's son. [source]


From the Google translation of the article, it seems that he will always be present with the team and will be the first person to analyze any injuries/knocks.

Perhaps somebody who knows German could clarify better.

http://instagram.com/p/xmT_BrkqEb/

It seems like Pep and HWMW came to a mutually satisfactory agreement on that issue.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby prasun77 » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:18 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
theundead wrote:Dont know if this is the right place to post this.

sport1 says that we hired Mueller Wohlfart's son. [source]


From the Google translation of the article, it seems that he will always be present with the team and will be the first person to analyze any injuries/knocks.

Perhaps somebody who knows German could clarify better.

http://instagram.com/p/xmT_BrkqEb/

It seems like Pep and HWMW came to a mutually satisfactory agreement on that issue.

What if he is a BVB fan? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby runaway » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:28 am

I've finished and added more players from my earlier post in another thread.

Surprising results. For Bayern players, it's Goetze that scored the most goals that had an effect in 2014 on his (Bayern and Natinoalelf) teams' win percentage because he has a lot of opening goals. Mandzukic, who is 3rd behind Ronaldo and Messi's goal tally with 29, has minimal effect on his teams' win. 2014 is not Suarez' year.

You can the entire post here. :D
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby JANCKER » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:38 am

Mandzukic used to come in score a goal and go home(saving someone's face btw), saying 'my job is done here'.

Robben pass accuracy? 100%

Football has become stats and records... I remember when that was almost insignificant.

Inzaghi anyone? :P
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby runaway » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:29 am

I've only taken into account 2014 data and about goals so why would I take into account pass accuracy? Yes statistics are doesn't show the whole picture but it has it's uses like if we want to look at a player objectively. For example, it disproves even my long held opinion that Ronaldo and Messi doesn't score goals with much weight. It turns out they do. Because they score so often, even if the quality of the team they score against is not equal, the fact is, both affect their teams' win.

For the crowd favorite, Mandzukic, let's look at his 12-14 goal tally (his 2012 data in Wolfsburg not added). He scored 60 goals in 3 years, 40 of those have no weights or he scored when the team is already winning. And yet in his 86 appearances in 3 years, the amount of times he has "score a goal and go home(saving someone's face btw), saying 'my job is done here" is just 1/3 of it. And 2/3 of his goals had no weights. Yes he scored the CL final but those crucial goals are few and and far between.

Meanwhile Goetze gets a lot of criticism and yet he has scored the same number of crucial goals so far as Robben. In fact in the league, Goetze scored majority of the openers for Bayern. Robben is the top scorer for us but Goetze's goals had more weight. Does that make Goetze better than Robben? Of course not it just shows that we are underrating Goetze's contribution to the team. And saying he does not contributed to the team is a harsh misjudgment.

As I said in my post, this is just a supplement to a player's goal tally because what's the value of a player's goals when he usually scores a goals when the team is already winning? A goalscorer should not only be judged by the amount of his goals but also the effect of them on his team's match results.

The only reason statistics in football has not reached the predictability like in baseball is because of the huge probabilities. A supercomputer would be needed.

This was just out of curiosity if Ronaldo actually score valuable goals. It is a bitter pill to swallow but it turns out he did. And got some other surprising results.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:47 am

runaway, nice stats, but just an observation.... why not show the no of goals with weight (i.e. goals minus no of goals with no weight)? I think that's the most important really, not percentages as such. Someone could score 10 'weighted' goals (0% no weight), but another player could score 11 'weighted' goals and another 10 no-weight goals (48% no weight)... the latter is better, no?
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby runaway » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:54 am

Thanks for the feedback. I've added it as well as a proper breakdown per competition for Bayern players. :D
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby JANCKER » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:02 pm

Football is always more than that... you can't put it all in numbers. Others are free to have their own opinion on this subject, but I liked it more when stats and records had less publicity.
Otherwise good job for trying your best to put it in numbers... :D

For example an important goal can be even a penalty? Someone scored 20 penalties last year.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:13 am

If the penalty affected their chances of winning then yes it's important. It's called important in my post because it affected their chances of winning. A hattrick when the team is already up by 2-0 has no weight. Of course it affected the goal difference for the team but in the match, the game is already sealed.

This is the age of information. The more data you have, the more prepared you can be. In the future wearable tech like Germany used will be a standard in top flight football. Football might even be FM in real life. Heck there are many stories of people with coaching license who played FM.

But luck or chance affects football greatly but it doesn't mean there's no order in this unpredictable game.

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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby JANCKER » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:19 am

But a penalty can be scored from... let's say anyone.
I believed in a stat that said 'German in the penalty shootout - PRICELESS', but then came Kroos and **** up everything. :lol:

Numbers won’t win you games, sometimes yes…
Championships are decided by a single moment sometimes.
I will go back to 2006, Italy needs to score against Australia to qualify, in the 90th minute Grosso dives and gets a penalty, Italy wins the WC that year. He proved to be a ‘talisman’ again later that year against Germany too, is that luck? Luck striking multiple times at the same place…
What kept Chelsea going in 2012? They had shitty stats throughout their campaign. If you watch the stats they shouldn’t have made it out the group stage, it had to do more than with ‘luck’ even if it was a major component.

You can’t compare Penaldo and Messi with the rest, their teams play differently, all has to go through them, especially Penaldo… 20 penalties? Really… No wonder that as a team they failed to win more trophies than expected.
So scoring important goals is not that surprising, once in a while you’ll score some if every ball has to be delivered to you… that’s not the same policy everywhere.
This ‘boosting of stats’ are leaving our team without deserved recognition.
What do our players need to do more to be considered the best?
This is not Tennis to play alone…

Mandzukic offered to our team something different if we wanted stats we would’ve kept Gomez.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:12 am

Because Kroos isn't a good player under pressure and stress. We should have realized that before and I hope RM doesn't realize sooner.

Penalty shootouts is one aspect of football that's most unpredictable. There's a model that can predict in real time who will win while the shots are taken but not before.

Neuer for example had a cheat sheet for Brazil where he wrote player's tendencies but it doesn't guarantee he would save it. For goalkeepers, he has to guess right beforehand where a player will shoot or he won't have time to change direction. And guess who they get info of that? From studying files of players penalty takes.

And it been studied that a right footed player mostly strikes to the left.

That was quote was more a reputation the NationalElf players got but not universal. If it was every German player would score every penalty and they don't sadly.

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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby JANCKER » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:29 am

Because Kroos isn't a good player under pressure and stress. We should have realized that before and I hope RM doesn't realize sooner.


Where does this fit in stats? And 1000 other stuff... that's not stuff to be underestimated.

And it been studied that a right footed player mostly strikes to the left.


That doesn't need stats to figure it out, just some logic or experience.

Or where does Fussballgott's otherworldly performance in the WC final fit in stats?
The thing with stats is that you can always get too much credit from it or too little... Stats are as 'biased'(flawed) as me.

BTW did Ronaldo thank Goetze for making him win the Ballon d'Or otherwise it would've been Messi...
They should tell us what counts, stats, titles or what?
You're maybe unbiased... the material you're using isn't. Until they set some standards there will be speculations... Stats to me mean nothing especially if the stats come from a player who doesn't celebrate when his team is winning the CL, something stinks there, do you really want to award a prize to that example? That's OK only if he was playing Tennis or some other individual sport.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby MUTU » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:38 am

Why is it common for goalkeepers to study player penalty stats, but not vice versa? Some goalkeepers have a higher saving rate on one side than the other.
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Re: Bayern München's Miscellaneous

Postby runaway » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:04 am

You can account it like the number of mistakes a player makes in the most under pressured matches to know the biggest game players. And I'm pretty sure Fußballgott was ahead in number of challenges, tackles, etc

The numbers aren't flawed because they are plain and simple numbers. But the interpretation the person reading the numbers can be flawed.

Statistics is a tool to understand pattern and probabilities. It's not the end or a prize.

Ronaldo bagging 20 penalties is not coincidence. Yes the way he won it might be questionable but his skill in scoring them is clearly not. And the Ballon d'Or voters doesn't exactly look examine statistics as we've discussed in another thread most votes are political and with bias.

If they even examined stats, they would have seen that Neuer is not just another goalkeeper but an outlier among his peers.

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