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2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby tflags » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:09 am

Manchu wrote:7. Anything involving Tolisso.


:lol: :lol:
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Manchu » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:56 am

tflags wrote:
Manchu wrote:7. Anything involving Tolisso.


:lol: :lol:

Honestly, at this point I'm far more willing to start Rafinha at right back and play Kimmich in the midfield in any sort of match of importance than I am to start Tolisso. Both of them have repeatedly proved their ability to attack and defend at the highest level in a way that Tolisso just hasn't.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby tflags » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:00 am

Manchu wrote:Honestly, at this point I'm far more willing to start Rafinha at right back and play Kimmich in the midfield in any sort of match of importance than I am to start Tolisso. Both of them have repeatedly proved their ability to attack and defend at the highest level in a way that Tolisso just hasn't.


It is an option, yes. I also think Tolisso needs more confidence. From people who saw him last season he was a monster of a player. Allegedly.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby tflags » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:29 am

Three games uptown and a goal and/or post per game. And they said Thiago couldn't handle trequartista. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:30 am

tflags wrote:
Manchu wrote:Honestly, at this point I'm far more willing to start Rafinha at right back and play Kimmich in the midfield in any sort of match of importance than I am to start Tolisso. Both of them have repeatedly proved their ability to attack and defend at the highest level in a way that Tolisso just hasn't.


It is an option, yes. I also think Tolisso needs more confidence. From people who saw him last season he was a monster of a player. Allegedly.
He must have been considering Bayern broke the personal transfer record for him.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Manchu » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:35 pm

tflags wrote:
Manchu wrote:Honestly, at this point I'm far more willing to start Rafinha at right back and play Kimmich in the midfield in any sort of match of importance than I am to start Tolisso. Both of them have repeatedly proved their ability to attack and defend at the highest level in a way that Tolisso just hasn't.


It is an option, yes. I also think Tolisso needs more confidence. From people who saw him last season he was a monster of a player. Allegedly.

He was a "monster" of a player in Ligue 1, which has a much lower level of football than the Bundesliga but not much lower prices. In fact, not buying from there is on my six rules for successful transfers:
1. Don't buy directly from Ligue 1 unless it's a really good deal
2. Don't buy one-season wonders
3. Don't buy from teams that heavily over-performed the last season
4. Don't buy 19 year old players directly for the first team and expect them to perform like they're 24
5. Don't buy young French players, young German players are often as or more talented and generally much cheaper.
6. Don't buy solely based on physicality, speed, or dribbling, pay attention to technical ability, positioning, intelligence, and temperament.

But more generally, the problem with Tolisso is that he neither positions himself well in possession or in defense. I really doubt either Jupp or confidence can fix that problem. I would rather have Muller,* James, or even Ozil playing defensive mid than Tolisso--at least they know how to position themselves.

*To be fair, Muller would probably make a really great box-to-box midfielder(Vidal workrate+better positioning). He's just better as a box-to-box secondary striker.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:26 pm

Kylian Mbappe breaks each one of your rules :coffee:
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby JANCKER » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:32 pm

Manchu wrote: Don't buy directly from Ligue 1 unless it's a really good deal


YlonenXabi wrote:Kylian Mbappe breaks each one of your rules


:^o
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:39 pm

:-$


It might look overpriced, but he is a world class player at the age of 18
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Manchu » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:50 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Kylian Mbappe breaks each one of your rules :coffee:

Well, they are general rules, not commandments, and the intention is to increase the probability of a transfer succeeding, not to guarantee that it will succeed. Thus, some transfers that violate all or most of them will succeed and some that follow all of them will fail. However, the general idea is if you follow all these rules for several years you will end up with a much better squad at the end than if you followed none of them.

As for the Mbappe transfer, jury is still out on it and we will not know for several years, if even then, about how good it was. He's definitely very talented, but I would never have agreed with Bayern spending 200 million on him. At this point, we don't if he will work out to be a Messi, a Neymar, a Kevin-Prince Boateng, a Rooney, a Michael Owen(an incredibly talented young player who was destroying the Premier League at Mbappe's age but who ultimately failed live up to his potential), a Walcott, or a Gotze. There is no such thing as a sure bet(for example, everyone in 2013 thought that Gotze to Bayern was the best transfer ever) and the Mbappe transfer is waging everything on a single throw of the dice.

Additionally, even if we take it for a given that Mbappe will be a top 3 player in his prime, that doesn't necessarily mean that dropping 200 million on him was the best way for PSG to spend its money. If we take "winning the Champions League in the next season" as their objective, there are actually probably far better, if less sexy, ways to spend it. In fact, for that kind of money, we could probably get:
Badstuber-0
Bartra-20 million
Gundogan-60 million
Pepe Reina-10 million
Yarmolenko-30 million
Nuri Sahin-15 million
Theo Walcott-30 million*
total~165 million
Although none of these transfers have the flash of Mbappe's transfer, they would actually improve the PSG team far more. Every single position would be improved instead of just one of them, and team depth would considerably increase(which is why I put Sahin on there). No single injury would destroy this team, especially considering that they would still have Neymar.
*I put Walcott on there for one simple reason. I think he's badly underrated:
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(npg stands for non-penalty goals)


Anyways, I don't view Mbappe to PSG as a particularly bad transfer, although it is a little risky. There are other major transfers this summer(like everything AC Milan did) which I did think were bad, but that's another story.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Ed. » Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:49 am

If everyone is fit, none of the summer arrivals make it into Jupp's first XI.

Fully vindicates what I and a few others have been saying all along. This was a complete waste of a transfer window and though the overall squad improved marginally, none of the new players make it a better starting XI.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby longeleven » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:31 am

JANCKER wrote:
Manchu wrote: Don't buy directly from Ligue 1 unless it's a really good deal


YlonenXabi wrote:Kylian Mbappe breaks each one of your rules


:^o


The only reason I keep my faith on this kid Tolisso is someday, in future, when all Vidal, Javi Martinez are no longer here, our Kimmich (or whoever, maybe Goretzka) needs some muscle to get along in midfield.

If Kimmich back to midfield someday, he will needs some dirty ass behind to do bad jobs (wrestling, kicking ball, boxing...)

At the moment, in Bayern, I don't see anyone except Vidal can do this job better than Tolisso, Martinez 2013 is a beast but he tend to be more like a guard, covering your shit than being aggressive and biting oppenents.

For me, Tolisso is a copy of younger Vidal, less experience, less reckless, more stamina, more speed, more humble. By minutes in real game, he will be more experience, will know how to do right things.

I really don't mind if we keep him for couple of more years and see what will happen to him, normally, French won't flop in Bayern. Even we got Goretzka coming next year (also Sanches comeback)
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MaCk0y » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:23 pm

Kimmich and James are really good corner kick takers. We also have the best corner kick winner with his great anticipation and movement. Hummels. He wins like 95% of the corners. Unfortunately his finishing leaves much to be desired. Not expecting him to score or hit the target from every corner but needs to be more clinical.

Imagine if during the Pep era, when he had a minimum of 20 corners per match, we had Kimmich and James and Hummels (if he was lethal from heading), we could have just won every match just from corners. :D Instead, we used to get counter attacked from the awful corner kicks. :(

At least, even if we don't score much from corners, we don't concede either. I don't think we have let in a goal from a corner in a long time. :thumbup:
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby DerKaiser » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:50 am

Statistics are like miniskirts . What they reveal is tantalizing, but what they hide is crucial.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:05 am

Kinda off topic at this point but I would agree that the price PSG is paying for Mbappe isn't what I'd call a good teal. TBH I'd probably put him behind both Lemar and Silva on his own team overall....
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