You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Discussions about anything in general about Bayern, such as tactics, finances, kits, merchandise etc.
 

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:13 pm

Well, me personally can live without Javi in midfield, especially with Rudy, Vidal and Tolisso.
Apparently Hater of German Players #1
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5834
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 2080 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby America USA » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:51 pm

bastos80 wrote:Well, me personally can live without Javi in midfield, especially with Rudy, Vidal and Tolisso.

This. Martinez hasn’t played in the midfield in years and he doesn’t seem to have the legs for that anymore. The game against Berlin was not good for him. He needs time to find his rhythm back as defensive mid. This should’ve been done in the preseason friendly games where Bayern could afford to experiment.

Right now Rudy, Tolisso and Vidal are all better options in midfield to play alongside Alcantara.
User avatar
America USA
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm
Location: Virginia/California
Has thanked: 250 times
Been thanked: 211 times

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:53 pm

bastos80 wrote:Well, me personally can live without Javi in midfield, especially with Rudy, Vidal and Tolisso.


What made Heynckes Bayern strong in midfield was the fact Martinez and Schweinsteiger both were really strong physically and complete playerrs. Both to recover the ball, to fight like warrior. Schweinsteiger was more like a deep lying playmaker and Martinez was more like the engine in the midfield.

We have Vidal who can take both role.
We have Thiago and Rudy who can take the Schweinsteiger role without the same strenght, power and mental.
We have Tolisso who can take the Martinez role but without the same tactical knowledge (his main problem)
We have Martinez of course, but we don't know if he can still take the job at his top level.

I don't know what Heynckes is planning, but imo there is no way our midfield in 2018 start to be better than the one in 2012/13.
Bayern 3-3-3-1 build-up under Heynckes :
Neuer - Boateng Hummels Thiago - Kimmich Vidal Alaba - Robben Müller James - Lewandowski
Neuer- Boateng Vidal Hummels- Kimmich Martinez Alaba- Robben James Ribéry- Lewandowski
User avatar
Coman
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membership
 
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:16 am
National Flag:
International Atomic Energy Agency
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 1447 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:13 pm

Tolisso still needs time, but I think he can grow into a great B2B like Schweinsteiger.
Not really similar to Javi imo.
Apparently Hater of German Players #1
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5834
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 2080 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby RAJBAYERN » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:52 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:
RAJBAYERN wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:No offense, but can someone from the people who want Martinez in the middle or as a CDM, explain to me - when was the last time when you saw him in the midfield

Send via carrier pigeon.


Wembley 2013 Champions League final and was one of the best player of the game.

Remember, Heynckes is back.


Nope,it was in our last game - against Herta. Look at his stats,the only highlights are that he's made 3 tackles and he's with a rating of 6.7,while the most people lost they minds to talk how Tolisso was bad,while he has better stats in every aspect of the game with rating of 7.3.

Carlo tried him in our preseason friendlies as a CDM,i cannot remember which team was this against (Kickers Offenbach or Chemnitzer ?),and he started the game good in the first 20-25 minutes,but after that his playing was disastrous.

Don't get me wrong-i would absolutely love to have the Javi from 2013 and 14,but we have too much talent in the middle,and it's not the best thing to play a person who is playing as a CB from the end of 2014 in front of the players like Thiago,Tolisso,Vidal and even with in form Rudy.

Really guys,don't put pink glasses on everything.


Of course he played as 6 last game, but I think your question was refering before that game... :roll: that should be the logic of your question...

I think we have enough option for the midfield rather than talent for the 6 position, and for have balance in a football team, we need a pure defensive midfielder who can support the CB and protect the back of the offensive midfielders.. so for this the best 6 is Javi.

Is unfair that you compare Javi performance in his last game in berlin, without considering that he didnt play enough in that position in the last 4 years, also that the entire team is below their level.

So I want the Javi of 2013 as defensive midfielder so we need heynckes and time for get him at his best.

Against top team, there is no better defensive Bayern combo than Javi, Hummels and Boateng.
Super-Bayern! Super-Bayern! Hey! Hey!


DANKE JUPP!
User avatar
RAJBAYERN
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Panamá
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 500 times
Been thanked: 519 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:23 am

As I said earlier, if we were to play 4-2-3-1 the best choice in terms of similarity with 2013 would be Vidal - Rudy

Not because Rudy is like Javi or Vidal like Schweini, but because with those two partnering we would have more balance. Thiago is far more creative, but he's too soft and lacks defense basics. I like Thiago, don't get me wrong, but I expect much more from him.

I think balance was one of the keys for our success under Heynckes. The defense was rock solid because they had two beasts like Javi and Schweini protecting them. Even an old Van Buyten looked like a pretty good CB in that system.


But then again, we might even see 4-3-3 as Jupp seems to rate Thiago highly.
I TRUST IN ARJEN ROBBEN
User avatar
YlonenXabi
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 8686
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:53 am
Location: Sydney
National Flag:
Spain
Has thanked: 1714 times
Been thanked: 1753 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:27 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:As I said earlier, if we were to play 4-2-3-1 the best choice in terms of similarity with 2013 would be Vidal - Rudy

Not because Rudy is like Javi or Vidal like Schweini, but because with those two partnering we would have more balance. Thiago is far more creative, but he's too soft and lacks defense basics. I like Thiago, don't get me wrong, but I expect much more from him.

I think balance was one of the keys for our success under Heynckes. The defense was rock solid because they had two beasts like Javi and Schweini protecting them. Even an old Van Buyten looked like a pretty good CB in that system.


But then again, we might even see 4-3-3 as Jupp seems to rate Thiago highly.


For whatever reason people like to think Thiago is soft and can't defend, but by the facts he's literally our best midfielder when it comes to defending, even better than Vidal
User avatar
aterford
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1479
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am
Has thanked: 1330 times
Been thanked: 831 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby RAJBAYERN » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:33 pm

The problem with Vidal is that he has to define his role in Bayern, is amazing to see him in every places, passing, recovering the ball and attacking, but if he play in many positions, then the disorder could appear.

Also if we talk about "SOFT", I think Rudy is the soft one, he isnt much aggressive as Javi was in 2013. Rudy can be a good backup for Javi, but in the 4-2-3-1 lineup, Javi -Thiago is the best replacement of that Javi - Schweini combo.
Super-Bayern! Super-Bayern! Hey! Hey!


DANKE JUPP!
User avatar
RAJBAYERN
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Panamá
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 500 times
Been thanked: 519 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby RAJBAYERN » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:35 pm

But of course the 4-2-3-1 lineup will depend in how good and consistent can be Robben and Coman, because if they keep playing as they are right now, then I prefer to see the 4-3-3 with Lewandowski, Muller and James in the attacking line.
Super-Bayern! Super-Bayern! Hey! Hey!


DANKE JUPP!
User avatar
RAJBAYERN
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:25 pm
Location: Panamá
National Flag:
India
Has thanked: 500 times
Been thanked: 519 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bastos80 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:54 pm

As Jupp said, whether it's a 4231 or a 433, is a matter of interpretation...
Does anyone really think Kroos played as a clear cut number 10 and our line-up for the majority of the season can't be seen as a 433?
Apparently Hater of German Players #1
User avatar
bastos80
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5834
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 7:38 am
Location: Germany
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 2080 times
Gender: Male

Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Hardrade » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:27 pm

RAJBAYERN wrote:
Hardrade wrote:
RAJBAYERN wrote:A good thing that come from Heynckes is that he is old school football, he is not a pep guy who want to transform and change the sport that consequently complicate everything... Fundamentals and basic roles will give the players more freedom to play at their best option. He dont deal his players as robot.


Let me alter that a bit

A good thing that come from Ancelotti is that he is old school football, he is not a pep guy who want to transform and change the sport that consequently complicate everything... Fundamentals and basic roles will give the players more freedom to play at their best option. He dont deal his players as robot


So Ancelotti instead of Heynckes means alter a Little bit? Man You alter a lot, if fundametals would really exist in Bayern of Ancelotti then he will still here, but we lack of concentration and creativity in recent games, consequently YOU ARE FIRED!

Ancelotti old school football only in his face. So shhhh! Pep boy...


I’m sorry that flew over your head. Jupp is great, chill out now :D
Cría cuervos, y te sacarán los ojos
User avatar
Hardrade
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:27 pm
Location: Belgrade
National Flag:
Serbia and Montenegro
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 141 times
Gender: Male

Previous

Return to General Bayern Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo! [Bot] and 8 guests