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2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:21 pm

If we play 4-2-3-1 Müller will not compet with Thiago ... Thiago will probably play deeper
For good football : Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal (Tolisso), Thiago (Tolisso) - Robben, Müller (James), James (Ribéry) - Lewandowski

For boring football : 4-3-3
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby DerKaiser » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:28 pm

Image
Statistics are like miniskirts . What they reveal is tantalizing, but what they hide is crucial.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby aterford » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:21 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:If we were to play or 4-3-2-1 as we thought a couple of weeks ago, that would clearly benefit Müller IMO


But if we play 4-2-3-1 he would be eligible for two positons, CAM and RW.


- To play CAM he would be competing with James and probably even Thiago

- To play RW he would be competing with Robben


In the first case, James best position is CAM and he was nº1 in Carlo's shopping list. So regardless of what we think about him (and I think he's gonna be a massive signing), it looks likely that he will be given a starting position in the lineup

In the second case I might be biased, but Robben has been performing at a great level for years while Müller hasn't contributed for more than 12 months. I can't see a good reason to favour Müller over Arjen


And what makes it worse, Müller has never adapted to Carlo's tactics.


-----------------


Regarding those stats... Stats are always important, but football is not the NBA. If you just look at the stats you might think that Mario Götze was pure class in his first season with FC Bayern

34 games played (18 as sub)
19 goals
14 assissts

But we know that's simply not true, because we saw the games.


1. Carlo made it a point to say that he was very open to James playing on the wings - either side. If we play 4-2-3-1 it will more than likely have James as a winger and Müller central. Thiago will play deeper.
2. Müller has contributed over the past 12 months
3. There's a difference between comparing a player's entire body of work (Müller) with one season (Götze). Additionally, you're reducing it far too much; I explained much, much further than just pure goals+assists in regards to Müller.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:52 am

So I'm guessing it was just me who thought Götze was class at Bayern :|
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Manchu » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:14 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:So I'm guessing it was just me who thought Götze was class at Bayern :|

For me, Gotze distributes the ball incredibly well in the final third. He seems to create chances every time he touches the ball, whether at Bayern or at Dortmund.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby nm462272 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:14 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:So I'm guessing it was just me who thought Götze was class at Bayern :|


i never thought he was bad, except maybe when he played on the wing, but he underwhelmed while he was here
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby shpati_L1 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:21 am

Götze not making it in Bayern for me personally is the saddest thing concerning Bayern. I will always be a huge fan of him.

But the memories of him playing LW, doing some stepovers and passing the ball back to the LB over and over and over again scare me.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MUTU » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:51 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:So I'm guessing it was just me who thought Götze was class at Bayern :|

I don't remember considering a player who performed as well as him to be a flop, but I consider him a mega flop. We're talking about someone who was considered the talent of the century, who was preferred over Neymar, who scored the World Cup winner... everything was pointing at Mario to be one of the very greatest footballers of all time, and he's so far from those expectations today.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:48 pm

Of course he didn't meet expectations to a large extent, that is not questionable but I really really appreciated the magical moments he brought. At the very high spikes of his performances, he produced strokes of genius comparable to the most gifted technician in football history like Ribery and Messi. For all we know, and personally I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, he was playing with a persistent discomfort due to his muscle disease.

To me, these moments, and some others, are enough to justify my admiration for him. Truly elite showings of technical gift, these are the kind of skills that give rise to the commentator cliché "he makes it look oh so easy". If I ever get a chance to interview Pep my first question would be why this didn't work out.





Last edited by Dumbledore7 on Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Coman » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:49 pm

MUTU wrote:who was preferred over Neymar,


Please ... Neymar came to Barcelona for €90M or even more with their mafia and with wages even bigger than the one Lewandowski is earning right now...
For good football : Neuer - Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Alaba - Vidal (Tolisso), Thiago (Tolisso) - Robben, Müller (James), James (Ribéry) - Lewandowski

For boring football : 4-3-3
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby SrLuisGuilherme » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:56 pm

Coman wrote:
MUTU wrote:who was preferred over Neymar,


Please ... Neymar came to Barcelona for €90M or even more with their mafia and with wages even bigger than the one Lewandowski is earning right now...

exactly... plus Neymar had an agreement with Barça since 2011. We could've never gotten him.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Manchu » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:33 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Of course he didn't meet expectations to a large extent, that is not questionable but I really really appreciated the magical moments he brought. At the very high spikes of his performances, he produced strokes of genius comparable to the most gifted technician in football history like Ribery and Messi. For all we know, and personally I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, he was playing with a persistent discomfort due to his muscle disease.

To me, these moments, and some others, are enough to justify my admiration for him. Truly elite showings of technical gift, these are the kind of skills that give rise to the commentator cliché "he makes it look oh so easy". If I ever get a chance to interview Pep my first question would be why this didn't work out.


Well, I've noticed interesting about Gotze's game over the last couple years. If one deigns to examine these videos of all the touches he had on the ball in several randomly chosen games both for Bayern and Dortmund since the summer of 2015, something intriguing appears(yes, I know, I just posted about 30 minutes of video, but honestly just watching a couple of them should give a good idea of what I'm noticing):









For comparison, here's one Ozil's games:

And here's Ribery's brilliant performance against Chelsea yesterday:


What you might notice is that the vast majority of the times Gotze gets possession of the ball anywhere inside the final third he manages to dribble or pass it into a much better position; a lot of good chances come within one or two passes of Gotze receiving the ball, and he very rarely losses the ball without creating something or recycles possession without moving the ball into a superior position. He also has some occasional moments of magic and others of complete failure, but those pale in comparison to the simple fact he doesn't get possession of the ball very often and does an awful lot when he does.*

Ozil and Ribery are excellent players, but they both lose possession more frequently, recycle possession without creating chances or improving the position of the ball a lot more, and generally require much more possession of the ball to create a few good chances.

What this all works out to is it seems like Gotze is basically an "offensive regista"(not a trequartista). Given the paucity of players like him in the world, it is not surprising the he is underrated, even by his own coaches.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby America USA » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:59 pm

If anyone from the club ever reads this forum then please tell Ancelotti to give 4321 a try for at least five games in the first few BL/Cup games. Please Carlo be a bit more flexible this time around!

If Sanches is not going on loan then it makes even more sense to play with three midfielders. The 4321 will also ensure that Robbery are not overplayed and are sufficiently rested for the later CL stages.

4321 with |Manuel - Kimmich Hummels Boateng Alaba - Thiago Vidal Tolliso - Müller James - Robert| looks like Bayern's best bet.

Also I do think Bayern could also use a back 3. However it depends on whether or not Ancelotti still continues to be stubborn or has learned his lessons from last season.

A 343 with
Neuer
Boateng Martinez Hummels (Sule, Felix)
Kimmich(Rafinha) Thaigo Vidal (Tolliso, Rudy and Sanches) Alaba(Bernat)
Robben(Muller/Coman) Lewandowski Ribery(James/Coman)
could also suit Bayern.
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby bmguy » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:51 am

3-4-3 is nice but using 3 strong DC + alaba and Kimmich will cause the chaos on the midfielders fierce competitions because there will be 5 defenders and only 4 spots left for MC while we have too many guys in MC.

So Carlos could use a hybrid 3-4-3 like Loew did on Confed cup.

3-4-3.jpg


Mueller is clumsy on defending so I guess Robben and Kimmich should form a new partnership down the right wing on both attack and defend better.

We actually could play like this, not sure what formation, but we all want to attack quick and dominate the possession.

4-4-1-1.jpg

Just 2 cents thought. :mrgreen:
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Re: 2017/18 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:44 pm

Exactly. I supported a 3 defender formation for quite some time but with our transfers it doesn't make sense anymore.


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