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2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby pyrasur » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:43 pm

There was plenty of thinking going on. Quick interchanges, one touch passing, as PunkCapitalist says it was there to see. That's football. If I wanted to see pure athletes I'd watch Real Madrid just make Ronaldo and Bale sprint the length of the field. :roll: So much complaining about Pep this Pep that, we don't score enough goals under Pep. Is it not enough to crush Roma, crush Shakhtar, crush Porto? One time we smash Barcelona with Messi missing and apparently that's the Holy Grail there. Nevermind that Dortmund had Heynckes's number until the CL final, and even then thank goodness Dante wasn't sent off.

The use of Lahm as a central midfielder in defense moving to right midfield in attack was a master stroke, that was not typical German wing play. That people can bury their heads in the sand just to talk trash about the manager all the time is so frustrating. And honestly I swear if I see Bayern Central congratulating themselves on Guardiola listening to them whenever Bayern win I'm gonna go crazy.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCB general » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:43 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Overall, the third goal vs Porto is basically Pep's philosophy made reality in perfection; perfect fast one-touch passing.

The goals came with headers after passes from both flanks and fast tempo, totally anti-Guardiola. In the first match we scored our only goal after only one real pass(Boateng for Thiago). We didn't do shít there in Portugal and now in the second match we played one crazy football. We ran far more than usual, at least I saw this during the first half. 1st leg was like someone sucked their energy, but that pressing and aggressive football which you also mentioned is also unusual, even some counters. One-touch football was great, no doubt. But to me it was a recall of our best day before the start of his reign.

Still, it doesn't change things at all. The last night was something completely unexpected for me, but it confirmed my suspicions about our playing style. Now I can imagine us even 40% stronger with the old style once when all players will be available, like in the last season. Even without all of them, they can still do it very well.

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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby nm462272 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:45 pm

And honestly I swear if I see Bayern Central congratulating themselves on Guardiola listening to them whenever Bayern win I'm gonna go crazy.


Best just to avoid that place, along with Bavarian Football Works... I've never seen people so misinformed and clueless about Bayern :roll:
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby quaazi » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:01 pm

FCB general wrote:Bayern under Guardiola almost never played fast tempo and direct football. How many goals did we score last night after cross balls?

[...]

I don't find anything similar to Guardiola's philosophy when our wings and full-backs were main protagonists and the ball was focused near corner line.

[...]

I'm probably blind as bat when I "saw" good old German Bayern in the first 45 minutes and nothing close to that crap we played in the last 10 games or against Real Madrid last year. #-o


You're full of shit, son. Attempted and completed crosses yesterday 19-9, attempted and completed crosses against Real Madrid in that game 34-4. As a bonus here are also the figures for Arsenal-Bayern last season, as well as Bayern-Dortmund, Roma-Bayern and Bayern-Shaktar, in that order: 37-10, 21-6, 15-5, 30-12. The two 7-goal games against Roma and Shaktar had double the difference between crossing attempts. Guardiola has tried full on crossing many games, you're just too blind or biased or plain stupid to recognize it.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Reinhart » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:35 pm

I'm still new to football so I can't talk much about tactics and formations but what I could clearly see was that Bayern pressed a lot more last night than they did in the first game at Porto. Porto did press a lot higher in their home game but Bayern seemed almost lethargic in that game whereas last night everyone pressed in unison much like Pep's Barcelona. Even Alonso was in the middle of the pitch pressing high up when in the first game he could barely make it pass the half-line. That helped Bayern reclaim possession quickly and allowed less time for Porto to think on the ball. Everyone worked with urgency and were much more alert which allowed for the one touch passing and fluidity in movement.
Last edited by Reinhart on Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Korab » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:35 pm

Personally I think Lewa and Muller have to run away from Bayern, I said that before, under Guardiola there is no place for them. He needs more Bernats everywhere. He has his Thiago, Bernat and other midfielders. Even Goetze should pack his things and go, 1 more season under Guardiola and he is finished.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Rauntšik » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:41 pm

Korab wrote:Personally I think Lewa and Muller have to run away from Bayern, I said that before, under Guardiola there is no place for them.


I don't want to bash your opinion, but this is utter nonsense.
Müller and Lewa have been one of the key players this season, how could they not have a place under Guardiola?
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby sws » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:49 pm

Rauntšik wrote:
Korab wrote:Personally I think Lewa and Muller have to run away from Bayern, I said that before, under Guardiola there is no place for them.


I don't want to bash your opinion, but this is utter nonsense.
Müller and Lewa have been one of the key players this season, how could they not have a place under Guardiola?


No, it makes complete sense. They play almost every single game. They both are in the top 5 goalscorers of the Bundesliga season. They've both scored key goals for Bayern this season. So it makes complete sense for them to leave Bayern, because otherwise they'll never get the chance to play or succeed. Didn't you see Pep hug Lewa so many times out of pure hatred?
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby Korab » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:52 pm

Rauntšik wrote:
Korab wrote:Personally I think Lewa and Muller have to run away from Bayern, I said that before, under Guardiola there is no place for them.


I don't want to bash your opinion, but this is utter nonsense.
Müller and Lewa have been one of the key players this season, how could they not have a place under Guardiola?

They have been, by accident only in Guardiola system. That f.... boring ping-pong is his main goal with anybody finally being able to kick the ball into the TOR. Why to waste first rate players?
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby sws » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:02 pm

Reinhart wrote:I'm still new to football so I can't talk much about tactics and formations but what I could clearly see was that Bayern pressed a lot more last night than they did in the first game at Porto. Porto did press a lot higher in their home game but Bayern seemed almost lethargic in that game whereas last night everyone pressed in unison much like Pep's Barcelona. Even Alonso was in the middle of the pitch pressing high up when in the first game he could barely make it pass the half-line. That helped Bayern reclaim possession quickly and allowed less time for Porto to think on the ball. Everyone worked with urgency and were much more alert which allowed for the one touch passing and fluidity in movement.


True, I think that the pressing working had a lot to do with how we rested players over the weekend and obviously the last game we had been exhausted after the 120 mins vs and 90 vs Frankfurt. We didn't start Boateng, Thiago, Lahm or Alonso, meaning our midfield was much more rested. Previously we ridiculously overplayed Alonso, running him into the ground. This game he played fine.

Porto also started 4 CB's because of their missing starting fullbacks. So, when we sent players wide, it was much more effective than it might've been otherwise. Once we got in that first goal from Thiago, that Bernat supplied from the left flank, our midfield had a lot of momentum to the point where we could pass 26 times to score the third goal.

Also, it was important that Porto didn't decide to press high like last time, and defend instead. It would've been less effective than last game but getting the early goal was very crucial. By the second half our players were very tired and couldn't keep up the tempo.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:15 am

People need to understand something about Pep. Whenever the team passes slowly/ the dreaded U passing shape occurs, that's the players using what Pep taught them in a completely wrong way. Pep has said he hates it. Porto at the Allianz IS perfectly executed Pep football: intense, fast, breathtaking. It's about taking the ball from your opponent as soon as they get it and move it fast and furious to their goal (that is achieved by passing, because no player can run as fast as the ball).
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby sws » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:29 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:People need to understand something about Pep. Whenever the team passes slowly/ the dreaded U passing shape occurs, that's the players using what Pep taught them in a completely wrong way. Pep has said he hates it. Porto at the Allianz IS perfectly executed Pep football: intense, fast, breathtaking. It's about taking the ball from your opponent as soon as they get it and move it fast and furious to their goal (that is achieved by passing, because no player can run as fast as the ball).

On Bayern's first match vs. Nurnberg in his first season [Pep Confidential]:

"Bayern were dreadful in the first half. It’s as if the players want to please Pep by making sure they pass the ball, one of the group remarks, which immediately sets the coach off on one of his long explanations. ‘I loathe all that passing for the sake of it, all that tiquitaca. It’s so much rubbish and has no purpose. You have to pass the ball with a clear intention, with the aim of making it into the opposition’s goal. It’s not about passing for the sake of it.’

.......

The Nürnberg match has been the perfect culture medium for him: dreadful at the start and explosive at the end. Everyone at the table wants to know what he said to his players at half-time to make them completely change the quality of their game. ‘Not very much. Just four words: What are you DOING!?’

He told them to loosen up and let themselves go and reminded them that not once in his two months in charge had he asked them to play like Barça. He insisted that he had never asked them to play like that just to please him, and pointed out that the people they needed to please were the 71,000 fans who fill the Allianz week in, week out. All Pep asked his players to do was lose any self-consciousness and be themselves.

‘I just want them to start off moving forward together for a few metres so that, if we lose the ball, the opposition can’t take advantage of our lack of unity. Every team in Germany is capable of mounting a counter-attack before you’ve had the chance to even breathe and if we lose our unity it gives them a chance to break through and make chances.

‘The only thing I want is that if Dante hits a long, diagonal ball to Robben, he doesn’t attempt it from in or around our own penalty box, but from a position around the centre of the field, once we’ve played up there. If Robben then loses the ball we are all up there relatively close to him and we can win it right back without a problem. But if Dante launches the ball too soon and Robben loses it then we are all straggled out and – pam! pam! – the opposition will certainly hit us with an effective counter-attack.’

‘Bastian’s [Schweinsteiger] DNA is pure Bayern. You can see his body demanding that he keep running up and down the pitch. I love that.’

‘But in that case,’ interrupts one of his Barcelona pals ‘how do you get the nous and patience in the play you want, with that very same German DNA?’ Guardiola replies: ‘Once they’ve moved as a unit to the middle of the field, that’s when I want them to be more Bayern than ever. I want them to dig into that DNA, let themselves go, run, liberate themselves. That’s where they excel. They like running, they love it. And I love to see them doing it. Let them run. Let them open up the wing play and cross into the box. Not necessarily to hit the goal every time on the volley – that’s hard to achieve – but so that we can take advantage of rebounds off the keeper, of the second ball – that is where we create most danger. If we play like that jointly then the rebounds will fall to us and the extra danger we create is that the defenders are wrong footed and on the turn while we are running on to the chance.

That’s what I’ve told them to do. That’s what I want.’"
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby pyrasur » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:46 am

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Holy crap it's like the man actually had a method for winning 20 trophies in 5 years.
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby FCB general » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:27 pm

quaazi wrote:Guardiola has tried full on crossing many games, you're just too blind or biased or plain stupid to recognize it.

Is that so? Good... I'll remember this game. And that mysterious pressing and the goals we scored. :idea:
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Re: 2014/15 Tactics & Formations Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:39 pm

quaazi wrote:
FCB general wrote:Bayern under Guardiola almost never played fast tempo and direct football. How many goals did we score last night after cross balls?

[...]

I don't find anything similar to Guardiola's philosophy when our wings and full-backs were main protagonists and the ball was focused near corner line.

[...]

I'm probably blind as bat when I "saw" good old German Bayern in the first 45 minutes and nothing close to that crap we played in the last 10 games or against Real Madrid last year. #-o


You're full of shit, son. Attempted and completed crosses yesterday 19-9, attempted and completed crosses against Real Madrid in that game 34-4. As a bonus here are also the figures for Arsenal-Bayern last season, as well as Bayern-Dortmund, Roma-Bayern and Bayern-Shaktar, in that order: 37-10, 21-6, 15-5, 30-12. The two 7-goal games against Roma and Shaktar had double the difference between crossing attempts. Guardiola has tried full on crossing many games, you're just too blind or biased or plain stupid to recognize it.

So often we try crossing but the defenders get the ball, so we as fans would probably tend to forget about them. It's the ones where we actually score (or miss a sitter) that we tend to remember the most. Thankfully, we have statistics like these which, providing they're accurate, paint a different picture to our perceptions. Would have earned a 'thanks' for me if only you weren't offensive towards FCB general.
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