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2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby tflags » Mon May 05, 2014 2:26 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:But Schweinsteiger IS at his peak. You don't spend years nurturing talents just to bench them when they're at their best. In 2 or 3 years, maybe, because Schweini will probably be getting worse.


I am afraid if he wins the WC he'll simply fade.... Ok, I'll shut up now.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon May 05, 2014 2:33 pm

tflags wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:But Schweinsteiger IS at his peak. You don't spend years nurturing talents just to bench them when they're at their best. In 2 or 3 years, maybe, because Schweini will probably be getting worse.


I am afraid if he wins the WC he'll simply fade.... Ok, I'll shut up now.

So am I... in fact I posted earlier today in the generic transfer thread that as much as I would hate to see it perhaps the most sensible thing to do would be for Schweinsteiger to play less often. We must not lose either Kroos or Martinez and in my opinion Kroos this season is already as good as Schweinsteiger. He is Schweinsteiger's heir and he must be given enough time before it is too late and we lose him.

Schweinsteiger has already faded a little, but he is still one of the best in the world. He is bound to fade even more with time.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby Grimnir » Mon May 05, 2014 6:47 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Schweinsteiger has already faded a little, but he is still one of the best in the world. He is bound to fade even more with time.


Sometimes feel people here don't give Schweini enough credit. Fading? I'd argue he was one of our top, if not top, big game goal scorers of the second half of the season. He saved the day some very key matches matches when no one else could do the job.

Sure as he ages, just like Lahm, he'll start to slow...but players like this even as they get older will still stay relevant probably until they retire. They have the leadership skills and "die-hard" spirit that keeps a club ticking. The truly irreplaceable ones.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon May 05, 2014 7:42 pm

Grimnir wrote:Sometimes feel people here don't give Schweini enough credit. Fading? I'd argue he was one of our top, if not top, big game goal scorers of the second half of the season. He saved the day some very key matches matches when no one else could do the job.

Sure as he ages, just like Lahm, he'll start to slow...but players like this even as they get older will still stay relevant probably until they retire. They have the leadership skills and "die-hard" spirit that keeps a club ticking. The truly irreplaceable ones.

Oh I agree that he was for some time our most in-form player, but I think he is not as good as he used to be a few years back. Maybe it's age, maybe it's the system, or maybe it's the players around him. Or maybe it's just form. There was a time when our midfield would be lost without him but that does not seem to be the case anymore.

My point was that we have to look at things in the long term. If we look at the club's best interests Schweinsteiger may have to become a frequently rotated player. I explained this more fully on the other thread so I won't repeat it here. Perhaps the club will find a better solution. :)

The one thing Schweinsteiger has improved on over what I consider to be his best years is scoring goals, I'll give him that.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby Element » Mon May 05, 2014 8:41 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Grimnir wrote:Sometimes feel people here don't give Schweini enough credit. Fading? I'd argue he was one of our top, if not top, big game goal scorers of the second half of the season. He saved the day some very key matches matches when no one else could do the job.

Sure as he ages, just like Lahm, he'll start to slow...but players like this even as they get older will still stay relevant probably until they retire. They have the leadership skills and "die-hard" spirit that keeps a club ticking. The truly irreplaceable ones.

Oh I agree that he was for some time our most in-form player, but I think he is not as good as he used to be a few years back. Maybe it's age, maybe it's the system, or maybe it's the players around him. Or maybe it's just form. There was a time when our midfield would be lost without him but that does not seem to be the case anymore.

My point was that we have to look at things in the long term. If we look at the club's best interests Schweinsteiger may have to become a frequently rotated player. I explained this more fully on the other thread so I won't repeat it here. Perhaps the club will find a better solution. :)

The one thing Schweinsteiger has improved on over what I consider to be his best years is scoring goals, I'll give him that.


Schweinsteigers best was 2010
He was the worlds best cm that year

And last year too

This year he has been playing brilliantly but the reason you feel that hes fading is that the Squad is full of Quality that can compensate for his absence (e.g. A Martinez-Thiago-Kroos midfield is Worldclass IMO)

In the past 2-3 years , absence of Schweinsteiger automatically meant a non-existent central midfield
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon May 05, 2014 9:12 pm

Element wrote:Schweinsteigers best was 2010
He was the worlds best cm that year

And last year too

This year he has been playing brilliantly but the reason you feel that hes fading is that the Squad is full of Quality that can compensate for his absence (e.g. A Martinez-Thiago-Kroos midfield is Worldclass IMO)

In the past 2-3 years , absence of Schweinsteiger automatically meant a non-existent central midfield

This is probably the case but this is what I was talking about. In a few years we will have to be play without Schweinsteiger permanently and currently we have the player (Kroos) to replace him perfectly, who in my opinion is already playing just as well this season. I am worried that the insistence that Schweinsteiger is untouchable could lead to one of the three you mentioned being benched (as has already happened) and that could lead to problems in the long term. Schweinsteiger needs to be rotated just like other players. He is not untouchable. Only Neuer and Lahm and probably Alaba are.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby Element » Mon May 05, 2014 9:18 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Element wrote:Schweinsteigers best was 2010
He was the worlds best cm that year

And last year too

This year he has been playing brilliantly but the reason you feel that hes fading is that the Squad is full of Quality that can compensate for his absence (e.g. A Martinez-Thiago-Kroos midfield is Worldclass IMO)

In the past 2-3 years , absence of Schweinsteiger automatically meant a non-existent central midfield

This is probably the case but this is what I was talking about. In a few years we will have to be play without Schweinsteiger permanently and currently we have the player (Kroos) to replace him perfectly, who in my opinion is already playing just as well this season. I am worried that the insistence that Schweinsteiger is untouchable could lead to one of the three you mentioned being benched (as has already happened) and that could lead to problems in the long term. Schweinsteiger needs to be rotated just like other players. He is not untouchable. Only Neuer and Lahm and probably Alaba are.

Yes ,he should be rotated because simply can play great without him , and instead of exhausting him , we can keep a great Schweinsteiger for games his Versatility and experience actually will make a difference (like vs Man UTD)

And it is better to be used to play without him then having to face this suddenly

Look at barcelona ,xavi aged and they have let his replacement go (Thiago) , so they are in a deep mess now
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon May 05, 2014 9:27 pm

That is what I fear. If we go for a midfield with Martinez and if we assume that Thiago will start most games, as I hope, then that leaves no place for both Kroos and Schweinsteiger. If Schweinsteiger is not rotated Kroos will be to us what Thiago was to Barca.

I think that Pep's insistence to play a Schweini-Kroos midfield is partly due to this but that will result in us losing Martinez instead, which is also bad (if not worse).
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby Grimnir » Mon May 05, 2014 11:25 pm

Schweinsteiger still has a few good seasons left, he'll be 30 this coming season so its not as though he's ready for the wheel chair just yet :lol: The big problem to me was bringing in Thiago, and we really wouldn't have this problem to this degree without Thiago there. We should have waited a few seasons before bringing in another such player. A) because Schweinsteiger is still extremely relevant to us, and as a player who has dedicated his life to the club deserves more respect than being thrown out of the starting lineup like a piece of garbage, b) We have Kroos who is his direct and most logical successor who has yet to hit his real prime, and who is already great in both positions, c) We have Martinez who teamed up brilliantly with Schweini in defensive midfield last season, d) We have youth academy prospects like Hojbjerg who might well be another promising future central or defensive midfielder and should probably be getting a bit more playing time in those positions now.

I know some don't like to hear it and might not agree, but we really had no need for a player like Thiago for another few years. It's a real pity to think that our vice-captain and such a loyal and important player should be ousted just for the sake of a player we didn't need at this time to begin with. I think people are too quick to discount him and toss him away as yesterday's news. I would honestly prefer to see Thiago benched more upon his return or sold (I know it won't happen, but I can hope). Selling Thiago would obviously be much more fair than benching him, but I doubt Guardiola will go for that.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon May 05, 2014 11:37 pm

Grimnir wrote:Schweinsteiger still has a few good seasons left, he'll be 30 this coming season so its not as though he's ready for the wheel chair just yet :lol: The big problem to me was bringing in Thiago, and we really wouldn't have this problem to this degree without Thiago there. We should have waited a few seasons before bringing in another such player. A) because Schweinsteiger is still extremely relevant to us, and as a player who has dedicated his life to the club deserves more respect than being thrown out of the starting lineup like a piece of garbage, b) We have Kroos who is his direct and most logical successor who has yet to hit his real prime, and who is already great in both positions, c) We have Martinez who teamed up brilliantly with Schweini in defensive midfield last season, d) We have youth academy prospects like Hojbjerg who might well be another promising future central or defensive midfielder and should probably be getting a bit more playing time in those positions now.

I know some don't like to hear it and might not agree, but we really had no need for a player like Thiago for another few years. It's a real pity to think that our vice-captain and such a loyal and important player should be ousted just for the sake of a player we didn't need at this time to begin with. I think people are too quick to discount him and toss him away as yesterday's news. I would honestly prefer to see Thiago benched more upon his return or sold (I know it won't happen, but I can hope). Selling Thiago would obviously be much more fair than benching him, but I doubt Guardiola will go for that.

I agree that it would be a big shame to bench Schweinsteiger. Pep will have to figure out a good rotation plan that satisfies everyone.

I had also expressed similar concerns when we signed Thiago and did so again when we confirmed Rode. However as things have developed over the past year we have seen that this season Thiago was more important than Kroos and Schweinsteiger. Perhaps it will not be the case next season, but I find it hard to believe so. And so Thiago in the starting lineup has somehow become almost more important than having Kroos or even Schweinsteiger.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby Grimnir » Mon May 05, 2014 11:55 pm

I guess I have a bit of a different perspective as I didn't consider Thiago more important than Kroos or Schweinsteiger this year. But you'll probably get a different opinion between different fans on that one and I don't think one will manage to convince the other about it :P

The thing that also adds to Kroos and Schweinsteiger for me is the importance I place on having a youth academy nucleus. Yes, Kroos came to our academy via Hansa Rostock, but he's invested years into us and we into him. His young family is in Munich and he's made a life here. It'll be a similar situation as Alaba or Hojbjerg (if he ends up being a part of our future). But for me I place that importance of club identity and YA nucleus as above all...especially since Kroos and Schweinsteiger are still nothing to sniff at and are both top class, so its not as though their performances aren't up to standard or that we can't win a CL with them ( :P ).

To put it into a more extreme example: for me its like if someone offered us Gareth Bale in place of Müller. People might call me crazy but I would still take Müller without a single thought. Different fans, different opinions though.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby Jorsett » Tue May 06, 2014 12:25 am

Grimnir wrote:To put it into a more extreme example: for me its like if someone offered us Gareth Bale in place of Müller. People might call me crazy but I would still take Müller without a single thought. Different fans, different opinions though.

I'd choose that before the offer was even on the table! :P
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby pyrasur » Tue May 06, 2014 1:57 am

Says the person with the Müller face as his avatar :D

Seriously though no way any of the really Bavarian boys need to leave or be worried about time. Müller and Schweini are about as Bayern as it gets and they are both pivotal to our team. I just hope to see Martinez, Rode, or Schweini at defensive midfield next season so that it isn't necessary for Lahm to cover that position anymore. And I completely agree that we need a good rotation plan not just to keep everyone happy but to stop Schweini getting injured. The guy does not need to be playing every Buli and Pokal game and we need him fit next season for when we take what's ours back :evil:
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby Grimnir » Tue May 06, 2014 7:51 pm

pyrasur wrote:And I completely agree that we need a good rotation plan not just to keep everyone happy but to stop Schweini getting injured. The guy does not need to be playing every Buli and Pokal game and we need him fit next season for when we take what's ours back :evil:


True, true. These days any time he trips, goes down, looks in pain etc. I start praying. Hopefully the last operation meant the end of his injuries, but true not to take a chance if we don't have to.
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Re: 2013/14:Who improves? Who fades?

Postby michel » Sun May 25, 2014 7:11 pm

FC Bayern player evaluations for 2013-14: I am replacing the power rankings with a final evaluation of the players this season. This one includes the coach at the end.

More: State of Die Bayern: player evaluations for 2013-14
Publisher of Bayern Central
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