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2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:55 pm

Commodore wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote: while when its Shaqiri or Muller(and soon Gotze) it looks more of a 4-2-4


That's a point that can certainly be made, sure.

But then, how many headers has Schweinsteiger put past the keeper this year from inside the six-yard box? And he's nominally a DM in the pretty graphics before the game. This is just an example, but it goes to show that football is fluid and situational.

Often, defensively, we're playing a flat 4 - 4 - 2 against the ball. Think about it... :D


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I thinks its the fact that most of Bayern's players are accustomed to playing multiple positions that they can play with so much fluidity. Most players from the forwards to midfielders can play defensive and offensive roles if the situation asks for it. Also not to exclude Lahm and Alaba who are also very capable in creating or scoring from chances when in front of goal
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:10 pm

Exactly. And often our full backs are not only leaving their "real" position vertically. Look from where Alaba scored the 1:0 against Juve...

What you can see perfectly in a player like Javi Martínez in a situation like that, is that he'll immediately secure the flank left open by Alaba. Should shit hit the fan, we lose the ball and run into a counter attack you can see Alaba automatically switch into DM. He does that without first checking if Javi secured his position because he trusts him, and that's what they've been doing in training over and over.

The way back to the CM/DM area is simply shorter in that situation for Alaba, so Javi shifts back and to the left a little, while Alaba sinks back into DM, ideally supported by Robben, Kroos, Ribéry, or whoever is available, really (We've seen Gómez in DM in a few situations against Barca).
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby walter » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:50 pm

I've been gone for a while, but I'm sure you guys remember my credo: Formations are not tactics! They are just a basic skeleton out of which your tactics develop. So don't get a headache trying to figure out the subtle differences between a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 and a 4 - 3 - 3. Watch what happens in the game and on the pitch. That's way more important than the pretty graphics in the pre game show (which are not rarely wrong anyways).


Like Van Gaal said, there are 100 ways to play a 4-3-3 (a 4-2-3-1 was still a 4-3-3 to him). And I agree that with Kroos we look more like a 4-3-3 with Martinez being the only CDM. I stopped caring about formations though and I look more at tactics. In terms of formations the only noteworthy differences are whether a team plays with two strikers or one, and whether there are three center backs or two.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu May 16, 2013 3:00 am

Is i just me or is it about time Kroos plays as a CM, especially with Gotze's arrival i feel like his future as an AM is coming to an end. In my opinion his skill sets are one of a CM who controls the midfield through his creative passes not an AM who quickly transitions defense to attack he just doesnt have the pace like Gotze or Ozil. We have all seen how counter's have been slowed down by Kroos and without Jupp to ride his nuts i think this issue will be addressed by Pep...
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby BayernLove » Thu May 16, 2013 3:38 am

Firefox1234 wrote:Is i just me or is it about time Kroos plays as a CM, especially with Gotze's arrival i feel like his future as an AM is coming to an end. In my opinion his skill sets are one of a CM who controls the midfield through his creative passes not an AM who quickly transitions defense to attack he just doesnt have the pace like Gotze or Ozil. We have all seen how counter's have been slowed down by Kroos and without Jupp to ride his nuts i think this issue will be addressed by Pep...

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Chalant » Thu May 16, 2013 7:12 am

Firefox1234 wrote:Is i just me or is it about time Kroos plays as a CM, especially with Gotze's arrival i feel like his future as an AM is coming to an end. In my opinion his skill sets are one of a CM who controls the midfield through his creative passes not an AM who quickly transitions defense to attack he just doesnt have the pace like Gotze or Ozil. We have all seen how counter's have been slowed down by Kroos and without Jupp to ride his nuts i think this issue will be addressed by Pep...


Wouldnt setting Kroos as CM slow down the counter even more? We saw that last season. Schweinsteiger and Martinez are much better for this job.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby AdepT » Thu May 16, 2013 7:44 am

BayernLove wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:Is i just me or is it about time Kroos plays as a CM, especially with Gotze's arrival i feel like his future as an AM is coming to an end. In my opinion his skill sets are one of a CM who controls the midfield through his creative passes not an AM who quickly transitions defense to attack he just doesnt have the pace like Gotze or Ozil. We have all seen how counter's have been slowed down by Kroos and without Jupp to ride his nuts i think this issue will be addressed by Pep...

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu May 16, 2013 8:34 am

Firefox1234 wrote:Is i just me or is it about time Kroos plays as a CM, especially with Gotze's arrival i feel like his future as an AM is coming to an end. In my opinion his skill sets are one of a CM who controls the midfield through his creative passes not an AM who quickly transitions defense to attack he just doesnt have the pace like Gotze or Ozil. We have all seen how counter's have been slowed down by Kroos and without Jupp to ride his nuts i think this issue will be addressed by Pep...

I think Kroos is going to lose his place. He'll have to work hard to get it, especially because Bayern have still been successful without him (although the style has changed a bit).

If Robben stays it is possible that Kroos will be considered a CM backup. But I think the chances of him starting at CAM are much higher than CM.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby MoFattal » Thu May 16, 2013 9:15 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:especially because Bayern have still been successful without him


The BVB is the game to tell. Kroos was the linchpin of our relatively successful (relatively because of Weindenfeller) showing against BVB this year. His control of the tempo, distribution, and outside shootings gave Dortmund a lot more to think about. In the previous years, all they had to do was double-press the flanks. With Kroos' abilities, double-teaming on the flanks would've opened a whole bunch of options for Toni to exploit. Juve/Barca don't do that kind of pressing, and hence our game switched back to starting from the flanks, so his absence was not felt (in fact, it was sort of beneficial). I really really hope that we do not miss him in the final.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Chalant » Thu May 16, 2013 1:25 pm

Kroos is a highly underrated player, mainly because he is not technical like Gotze or everywhere causing trouble like Muller. However, he has a great long shot, a good dribbler, and has vision, like it was stated in earlier posts. Im surprised that we havent trained him to be a deep lying playmaker like Gundogan (we dont have one).
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu May 16, 2013 7:22 pm

MoFattal wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:especially because Bayern have still been successful without him


The BVB is the game to tell. Kroos was the linchpin of our relatively successful (relatively because of Weindenfeller) showing against BVB this year. His control of the tempo, distribution, and outside shootings gave Dortmund a lot more to think about. In the previous years, all they had to do was double-press the flanks. With Kroos' abilities, double-teaming on the flanks would've opened a whole bunch of options for Toni to exploit. Juve/Barca don't do that kind of pressing, and hence our game switched back to starting from the flanks, so his absence was not felt (in fact, it was sort of beneficial). I really really hope that we do not miss him in the final.


We can only discuss this after the final, because you can't really conclude anything or the last game. Let's make sure we don't need this excuse though!
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu May 16, 2013 10:45 pm

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Aequitas1987 » Tue May 28, 2013 4:38 pm

I just had a thought what if Pep bought Gotze not to be our messi i.e. false nine or our Kroos replacement what if he bought him to be our Xavi? Do you think its realistic to assume that Pep pushes Martinez to CB and plays Gotze next to Schweinsteiger as a deep lying playmaker?

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Tue May 28, 2013 4:53 pm

Far, faaaar more likely that Kroos will have that fate bestowed upon him.

However, Götze's experience with Gegenpressing makes him a decent player in regards to defensive positioning. Still, I really doubt Götze would be the guy dropped that deep.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue May 28, 2013 4:54 pm

Aequitas1987 wrote:I just had a thought what if Pep bought Gotze not to be our messi i.e. false nine or our Kroos replacement what if he bought him to be our Xavi? Do you think its realistic to assume that Pep pushes Martinez to CB and plays Gotze next to Schweinsteiger as a deep lying playmaker?



Umm.....no, not even Loew is stupid enough to play Gotze there. Im assuming you havent seen many BvB games or Gotze play, he is not a center midfielder he doesnt play that far away from the six yard box like Xavi. He is an attacking midfielder who can also play on either wing. Kroos is the type of player who can play in the midfield and dictate play there so if Pep is gonna play anyone there its Kroos not Gotze.....
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