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2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:11 am

--------------------------Neuer-------------------------
Lahm------------Boateng-----Dante-----------Alaba
-----------Javi Martinez---Schweinsteiger---------
Robben-----------------Götze------------------Ribery
----------------------Lewandowski---------------------


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:14 am

BTW does anyone have our stats since Kroos injury? We were having a tough game against Juve and after that we have just demolished every team :shock:
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:36 am

Don't imply causality where there is none.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:03 am

YlonenXabi wrote:BTW does anyone have our stats since Kroos injury? We were having a tough game against Juve and after that we have just demolished every team :shock:

I discussed the same thing in a discussion with a friend of mine yesterday.

I think the reason is that we have a much faster forward 4 with Ribery, Robben and Muller, as well as the fantastic form of Robben and Muller. However Kroos is a crucial player for Bayern. He is very helpful in playing a calmer, safer style of football and his long shots are probably the best of any player we have. It is good to have these options.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:04 am

Against Barca his absence also probably was a good thing, considering how little possession we had. But in a potential final against Dortmund (or Real...) it could get tricky without Kroos.
The ideal team

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---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby samaj » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:17 am

Playing with Kroos, is a whole new different tactics.

I wasn't surprised when Robben - Muller replaced him and began to destroy all other teams :D
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:18 am

As far as I can tell we've played four games without Kroos, where we did not alter our starting XI for reasons other than injuries (i.e. the two routings against Nürnberg and Hannover because we had the Meisterschaft wrapped up).

Those were:

Bayern 2 : 0 Juve (Let's count this, because it was essentially without Kroos)
Frankfurt 1 : 0 Bayern (Pretty shaky game. Couldn't have complained had we drawn or even lost it)
Juve 0 : 2 Bayern (Awesome performance. Somewhat shaky in the beginning stages of the match, but who expects to dominate Juve at home for the full 90?)
Bayern 4 : 0 Barca (Flawless!)

So I think saying this:

YlonenXabi wrote:We were having a tough game against Juve and after that we have just demolished every team :shock:


Isn't doing Toni Kroos justice and, as I said, is implying causality where there is none.

In our 4:0 against Nürnberg, Tymoshchuk and Can were our double pivot, Rafinha and Contento our full backs, Shaqiri our right wing, Pizarro our #10, and last but not least, Tom Starke in goal.
In our 1:6 at Hannover, Gustavo and Tymoshchuk were our double pivot, Rafinha our right back, Pizarro our #10.

If we want to draw causality now à la Kroos hurt --> We demolish everybody, then we must be fair and question Schweinsteiger, Martínez, Lahm, Alaba, Müller, Robben, Ribéry and yes, Manuel Neuer in the same way, too.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby samaj » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:21 am

Commodore wrote:As far as I can tell we've played four games without Kroos, where we did not alter our starting XI for reasons other than injuries (i.e. the two routings against Nürnberg and Hannover because we had the Meisterschaft wrapped up).

Those were:

Bayern 2 : 0 Juve (Let's count this, because it was essentially without Kroos)
Frankfurt 1 : 0 Bayern (Pretty shaky game. Couldn't have complained had we drawn or even lost it)
Juve 0 : 2 Bayern (Awesome performance. Somewhat shaky in the beginning stages of the match, but who expects to dominate Juve at home for the full 90?)
Bayern 4 : 0 Barca (Flawless!)

So I think saying this:

YlonenXabi wrote:We were having a tough game against Juve and after that we have just demolished every team :shock:


Isn't doing Toni Kroos justice and, as I said, is implying causality where there is none.

In our 4:0 against Nürnberg, Tymoshchuk and Can were our double pivot, Rafinha and Contento our full backs, Shaqiri our right wing, Pizarro our #10, and last but not least, Tom Starke in goal.
In our 1:6 at Hannover, Gustavo and Tymoshchuk were our double pivot, Rafinha our right back, Pizarro our #10.

If we want to draw causality now à la Kroos hurt --> We demolish everybody, then we must be fair and question Schweinsteiger, Martínez, Lahm, Alaba, Müller, Robben, Ribéry and yes, Manuel Neuer in the same way, too.


Well said =D>
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:59 pm

All ive noticed is Bayern play a slower game when Kroos is playing than when Muller or Shaqiri are playing AM. I feel against a team like Barca Kroos may not be as effective but a team like R. Madrid and BvB he would be....
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:14 pm

That's a good point, and it's why I said earlier that diversity is a good thing and why I think Toni Kroos should in no way view Mario Götze as a threat. They are so dissimilar, yet both so brilliant at what they are best at that both will see enough playing time, and both will contribute good things to the team.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:18 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:All ive noticed is Bayern play a slower game when Kroos is playing than when Muller or Shaqiri are playing AM. I feel against a team like Barca Kroos may not be as effective but a team like R. Madrid and BvB he would be....


Yes, this is what I said before the Barça game. And also every team was getting used to our calm possesion game but suddenly we turned that into a more fast and dynamic play
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:56 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:--------------------------Neuer-------------------------
Lahm------------Boateng-----Dante-----------Alaba
-----------Javi Martinez---Schweinsteiger---------
Robben-----------------Götze------------------Ribery
----------------------Lewandowski---------------------


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


I think you left a very imp player... - someone called Thomas Muller...
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:38 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:Can someone explain to me what is the difference between 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 i feel that 4-2-3-1 is just one of many 4-3-3 based formations but I don't know what makes 4-2-3-1 different?


There's not a big difference. In fact we are playing a situational 4 - 3 - 3 already, and for a long time, too. The biggest difference is how your DM/CM is set up on the pitch (and what kinds of players you have playing which role).

For example a formation, nominally called 4 - 2 - 3 - 1, with Martínez and Schweinsteiger in DM and Kroos on #10 is, and has been played by us more often than not, as effectively a 4 - 3 - 3. Martínez, Kroos and Schweinsteiger forming an offensively oriented triangle with Javi being the only "true" DM.

Sub out Schweinsteiger and bring on Gustavo, and we're way more in 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 territory.

That, when you schematically display a 4 - 3 - 3 on a virtual pitch, the two wingers are displayed near the touchline, and in a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 they are a bit withdrawn, doesn't necessarily mean a lot. Again it depends on the player. Put Cristiano Ronaldo on the wing in a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 and he still does absolutely nothing defensively.

I've been gone for a while, but I'm sure you guys remember my credo: Formations are not tactics! They are just a basic skeleton out of which your tactics develop. So don't get a headache trying to figure out the subtle differences between a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 and a 4 - 3 - 3. Watch what happens in the game and on the pitch. That's way more important than the pretty graphics in the pre game show (which are not rarely wrong anyways).
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:43 pm

Thx for the clearing up i was thinking there was some mystery behind it but my original thoughts were true. Tho i feel that when Kroos is playing its more of a 4-3-3 as he plays a bit deeper in the midfield while when its Shaqiri or Muller(and soon Gotze) it looks more of a 4-2-4 correct me if im wrong....

Commodore wrote:For example a formation, nominally called 4 - 2 - 3 - 1, with Martínez and Schweinsteiger in DM and Kroos on #10 is, and has been played by us more often than not, as effectively a 4 - 3 - 3. Martínez, Kroos and Schweinsteiger forming an offensively oriented triangle with Javi being the only "true" DM.

Sub out Schweinsteiger and bring on Gustavo, and we're way more in 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 territory.


Tho i have noticed Martinez and Schwein seem to have good chemistry where they can switch off with each other in offensive and defensive duties where sometimes Martinez will make a run further up the pitch and Schwein acts as the DM making it look like a rotating midfield triangle without Kroos taking up any defensive duties tho....
Last edited by Firefox1234 on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2012/2013 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Commodore » Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:50 pm

Firefox1234 wrote: while when its Shaqiri or Muller(and soon Gotze) it looks more of a 4-2-4


That's a point that can certainly be made, sure.

But then, how many headers has Schweinsteiger put past the keeper this year from inside the six-yard box? And he's nominally a DM in the pretty graphics before the game. This is just an example, but it goes to show that football is fluid and situational.

Often, defensively, we're playing a flat 4 - 4 - 2 against the ball. Think about it... :D
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