Unofficial FC Bayern Forum

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:46 pm

Continued from general-bayern-f13/2010-2011-tactics-and-formations-t4310.html

raz25 · by **raz25** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:37 pm

Ok, shall we continue our discussion Bayern vs Barca? Perhaps someone could move the other posts... Sorry and thank you.

Just to remind everybody, we are assuming that both teams are fit, and barca signed one of fabregas/sanchez, even though it's not that relevant, they are still incredibly strong. Oh, and we are talking about a match in CL, the upcoming friendly is almost a win for us, they are going to miss a lot of players.

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Actually, we'd be playing a style similar to what Barca themselves played this season.

I like the formation, but playing just like them, I don't know... The way I see it, it's like 2 BMWs are racing each other except that one it's a 330 and the other one is an M3. But perhaps playing their own game will mess up with their heads, so it could very well work. I'd still only try it on the Allianz:)

YlonenXabi, I agree with almost everything you said. I agree with players changing positions, it's always been magic when I saw it, but against barca I'd like to see this only between Muller and Ribery. I like the idea of playing Robben an entire match against Abidal/Maxwell, their weakest link, right? The only problem is Muller. He disappears in big games. We'll have to wait and see if this changes because if it won't we'll play a lot more predictable.

FCBayernMunchen · by **FCBayernMunchen** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:44 pm

raz25 wrote:I like the formation, but playing just like them, I don't know... The way I see it, it's like 2 BMWs are racing each other except that one it's a 330 and the other one is an M3.

True, trying to beat them at their own game is very hard to do. It looks like a good formation against them in theory, but as we know in practice the result is not always the same.

Aequitas1987 · by **Aequitas1987** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:28 pm

Against Barcelona, specially at Camp Nou this is the formation we need to play.

Olic-----Gomez-----Muller
Tymo----Schweini----Gustavo

Hear me out before you brandish me insane or drunk :lol:

As many people have suggested playing the technical possession game to Barca's level and beating them at their own game is very difficult. Sure we have Robben/Ribery/Schweinsteiger/Muller who can play close to that level but the only way to beat Barca at Camp Nou, is to out work them, out hustle them and show who has the superior stamina.

In this situation you need workers, who cover a lot of ground add to defense and offense consistently and don't stop running and pressuring Barca.

1) Olic - no questions asked I dont think anyone has more Stamina than him
2) Schweinsteiger
3) Muller - always helps out in both sides
4) Gustavo - also covers lot of ground
5) Tymo - same here

We bring in Robben/Ribery at 65/70 minutes after we have tired out Barca and then play counter attacking football.

You need Gomez there for cross/set-pieces and bullying up front and contrary to popular belief Gomez does run a lot as well (last season), if not Gomez put Olic in center and Ribery out wide so it would be
Ribery---Olic---Muller

What do you think of that?

In Allianz, we can try playing the technical game vs them.

shileno · by **shileno** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:50 pm

I don't think we can stop Messi, Villa, Sanchez, Iniesta, Xavi and Fabregas..

Agree with Aequitas, 3 CDMs are a must to dominate midfield. I'd put Robbery thought, or a least one of them from start, we always have great time in the first minutes of any half. The most important thing is that the whole team must stay together and focused on defense and offensive.

YlonenXabi · by **YlonenXabi** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:52 pm

Aequitas

I agree with your midfield (Schweini, Tymo, Gustavo)

I also think that Olic (if he reaches his best again) could be a very important player against Barça.

But i disagree with benching Robbery because:

1- Barça are not going to be specially tired at any part of the game because they have the ball. When you have the ball you don't get tired.
2- What if they score first?

I think that Gomez in Camp Nou wouldn't even touch the ball. He would be useless because he is not the best striker in counter attacks and
Barcelona have solid/tall CB's to mark him.

My idea:

Ribery---Robben----Müller
Tymo---Schweini--Gustavo

And Olic as super-sub

The attacking wings are for Ribery and Müller because they help a lot in defense but also go forward and are good in counters.
Robben as striker because he doesn't help in defense but he is superfast and one of our best goal scorers

FCBayernMunchen · by **FCBayernMunchen** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:24 am

YlonenXabi wrote:Ribery---Robben----Müller
Tymo---Schweini--Gustavo

I really love this.

dambun · by **dambun** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:46 am

YlonenXabi wrote:My idea:
Ribery---Robben----Müller
Tymo---Schweini--GustavoAnd

Olic as super-sub

The attacking wings are for Ribery and Müller because they help a lot in defense but also go forward and are good in counters.Robben as striker because he doesn't help in defense but he is superfast and one of our best goal scorers

I am totally with Xabi in this... as Mourinho showed, such a 4-3-3-0 tactic is one of the few ways to control Barca effectively....

Aequitas1987 · by **Aequitas1987** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:01 pm

I like the feedback but i still think that you guys are being unresonable, there is no way to fit both Olic and Muller and Robbery into a lineup and against Barca we definately need the first two.

The fact is Muller is the only one intelligent enough to through respect out the window and play Balls out against Barca, same with Olic and we need both of them starting.

Please do not critcize the future Balldon D Or Winner (Muller). I wholeheartedly believe that in 2 years time, people will forget about Messi, specially when the Euro comes about.

If Barca board was to tell me right now, Messi = Muller direct swap I would tell them to go jerk themselves off in the corner.

raz25 · by **raz25** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:49 pm

^ Aeuquitas, I can't wait to see how Muller will develop in 2 years time, but for now, he has no chance of getting Balon d'or. I love him very much but right now he is just above average in speed, dribbling and passing but he is the smartest player in the world, which makes him stand out, but most people haven't picked that up because he doesn't perform big in most important matches in CL, that's he's weakness, for now of course.

Aequitas1987 wrote:Olic-----Gomez-----Muller
Tymo----Schweini----Gustavo

, very good thinking. I liked your reasoning too. The problem is, as YlonenXabi said, we are the ones who are going to tire out not Barca, well by the 70th minute Olic will probably have a good warm up. And except for a corner here and there I don't see other chances created by that lineup.

Based on all your ideas, great work guys, this how I would play (on camp nou):

Olic-------------Robben
--------Ribery

---Schweini----Gustavo
----------Tymo

+ Olic is going to drive Alves and Messi nuts with his running
+ Ribery and Robben play close to each other and the magic happens
+ Robben plays an entire match having Abidal/Maxwell as a direct opponent

walter · by **walter** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:42 am

Olic-------------Robben
--------Ribery

---Schweini----Gustavo
----------Tymo

I like that idea. If Olic doesn't get back to his old best, Muller can slot in for him and trade positions with Ribery. Also, lets see how Kroos plays under Don Jupp, he was able to get the best from him in Leverkusen, so I'm staying optimistic. He actually played well his last two internationals. I'm excited about the upcoming season, although still concerned about the CB situation.

Aequitas1987 · by **Aequitas1987** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:47 am

Kroos is a gifted techincally but his physical attributes are horrible.

His work rate/stamina/physique require a lot of work to be of european standards, if he can work on that he can easily be our iniesta to Schweinsteigers xavi, but I dont think he has the mentality to achieve that.

walter · by **walter** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:31 pm

Kroos is a gifted techincally but his physical attributes are horrible.

Nothing that a month of preseason training with the Dallas Cowboys can't fix :lol:

No, seriously, he is still very young with a lot of room for improvement in his physical attributes. The question now is what is Don Jupp planning to do with him. Will he keep using him as a CM/CDM, or will he move him up to CAM or LM (like in Leverkusen). Anyone knows when is our first televised match? that should give us some indication.

Payam · by **Payam** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:38 pm

walter wrote:Nothing that a month of preseason training with the Dallas Cowboys can't fix

No, seriously, he is still very young with a lot of room for improvement in his physical attributes. The question now is what is Don Jupp planning to do with him. Will he keep using him as a CM/CDM, or will he move him up to CAM or LM (like in Leverkusen). Anyone knows when is our first televised match? that should give us some indication.

[FCBayernNews Straight From Don Jupp wrote:.."He's training very well," reported Heynckes, who is planning to field the gifted Germany international "where he can play best." The coach is thinking of picking the player either in attacking midfield or on the left flank, where he used him to good effect in Leverkusen.

walter · by **walter** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:51 pm

Payam wrote:
walter wrote:Nothing that a month of preseason training with the Dallas Cowboys can't fix

No, seriously, he is still very young with a lot of room for improvement in his physical attributes. The question now is what is Don Jupp planning to do with him. Will he keep using him as a CM/CDM, or will he move him up to CAM or LM (like in Leverkusen). Anyone knows when is our first televised match? that should give us some indication.

[FCBayernNews Straight From Don Jupp wrote:.."He's training very well," reported Heynckes, who is planning to field the gifted Germany international "where he can play best." The coach is thinking of picking the player either in attacking midfield or on the left flank, where he used him to good effect in Leverkusen.

Danke, Payam. I had not seen that.

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