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2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby RAGHU » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:04 am

Firefox1234 wrote:Bale is to expensive...


also overrated... y u people think of such a player when alaba is even better than him..... maybe a oldie like maicon can be brought for 2 or 3 years for rotation...
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:20 am

Element wrote:Short said

Gareth Bale is a LM/ LW

he is tooooooo offensive for a LB

I agree.

If he wasn't so overpriced, I'd happily bring Bale but for the winger position.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:03 am

Our main lineup should be 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. I think those are the most succesful formations in modern football.
But we can use 4-4-2 in some games or if we are one goal down at some part of the match.


The good thing is that we are going to have a great bench next season.

------------------Neuer-----------------
Lahm---Boateng--Badstuber---Alaba
-----Schweinsteiger--Gustavo-------
xxxx-----------xxxx-------------xxxx
--------------xxxxxxx-----------------


So we would have Ribery, Robben, Müller, Kroos, Shaqiri, Gomez, Pizarro, BombStriker and only 4 starting positions to fill

That's great compared to last season's Petersen, Olic, Pranjic, etc

And our bench has some more quality with Rafinha, Contento, Dante and Tymoshchuk
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:54 am

Nnnnnnnnnow. With all the talk about Guardiola and Martinez, I think we might want to look ahead to the season after the next. In a hypothetical situation where Guardiola indeed ends up at Bayern after his year off, what could we expect? A 4-3-3, of course, looking something like this (assuming we go for Martinez, not taking into account any transfers in the meanwhile):

------------------Neuer-------------------
-Lahm---Boateng--Badstuber---Alaba-
----------------Martinez-----------------
----------Schweini-----Kroos------------
-Shaqiri-------------------------Ribery--
-----------------Müller-------------------

Now, hear me out. I know there are some pretty big names missing in such a lineup, but let's just look at what Guardiola likes to do -

1) water carrier: dropping deep, usually as far as between the two centerbacks. Martinez would fill that role superbly, no current player we have does (Tymo is not a consistent passer and will be past his best before date in a year, Gustavo is a destroyer of the Makelele-mould who would most likely see action off the bench, Schweini is too good in his roaming role to be wasted anchoring the midfield, Kroos can't play THAT deep despite his technique making him a superb possession keeper).

2) sweeper keeper: noone does it better than Neuer. Not even Valdes. 11/10

3) ball-playing centerbacks: Badstuber is one of the best passing defenders around, and Boateng is not bad in that department either. If Bayern continues to have extremely high ambitions, Hummels might be brought in as the van Buyten replacement, another amazing player on the ball. Bad-Boa also have experience playing in the fullback positions, so they would fit in to the DM-drops-deep-WBs-push high plan of Guardiolas. Which brings me to:

4) attacking full/wing-backs: Lahm and Alaba could easily be the best attacking fullback duo out there. Perfect fit.

5) technical midfielders: in terms of using the ball, Schweini and Kroos are second only to Xavi and Iniesta. With Kroos still developing and age starting to catch up with Xavi (if this actually changes anything is up to debate), then that no1 spot could be ours too. Very importantly both Schweini and Kroos have prior experience playing on the flanks, which is very important in Guardiola's roaming style.

6) hard pressing wingers that need to be proficient in the penalty area: now, this is where things get difficult. I am not optimistic about the working relation between Guardiola and Robben. Robben's pressing game, while it has improved over the years, is nowhere near what Guardiola needs. Robben also makes his best moves on the counter in fast-paced direct football, not words Guardiola is associated with. And then there's also the open secret of Guardiola's inability to deal with large egos. Shaqiri, on the other hand, is young and less confrontational, and rather importantly, physically built to press high up the pitch. In fact there's a slight parallel to Alexis Sanchez in that regard. Of course a personal renaissance for Robben is still viable. On the other flanks, Ribery suffers from the same problems as Robben, but his position at Bayern is just too solid to even consider dropping or selling him - Ribs is here to stay. It might end up as an occasional trouble spot, but if that's the worst Pep has to deal with, no biggie.

7) False nine: here, Gomez is a big casualty. The guy has turned from counter-attacking offside trap specialist into a poacher, but to ask him to play the false nine role is too much. Despite his fluency in Spanish and goal-scoring record, I can't see him working out under Guardiola except under extraordinary circumstances. At best, he will adapt the plan to accommodate Gomez somehow. At worst, he'll become plan B to lump the ball forward to a la Ibrahimovic under Pep. Müller seems like the perfect fit, however. Despite not even being close to Messi in terms of technique, his footballing intelligence, stamina and versatility make for a superb false nine.

So a 4-3-3 formation as shown above seems quite likely. In defense, the superb work rate on the right flank would result in regaining the ball very quickly, while the left flank might be a bit of a trouble spot. In attack, we'd have Ribery and Shaqiri working the box, Müller linking them to the two midfielders, Alaba and Lahm providing width, and the remaining three recycling possession and switching flanks in the rear.

Of course that's not taking into account quite a few transfer windows.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:34 am

quaazi wrote:------------------Neuer-------------------
-Lahm---Boateng--Badstuber---Alaba-
----------------Martinez-----------------
----------Schweini-----Kroos------------
-Shaqiri-------------------------Ribery--
-----------------Müller-------------------


I love it. But the board won't look ahead so far just yet, and will look at next season first. Assuming we're still after a striker, it's unlikely that both Dzeko (or whoever) and Gomez will be benched.

Like you said hopefully we get Hummels. Neuer-Lahm-Hummels-Badstuber-Alaba would probably be the most creative defense line of all time. I find it unlikely though. I've given up on ever seeing Hummels in a Bayern shirt again.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby BayernLeb » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:47 am

After all that I dont want Guardiola any more !
I think this system will fail at Bayern since other than dropping a bunch of hard working world class players, Bayern lack one thing for the 4-3-3 system to really work : MESSI

Playing Messi as a false No. 9 was the reason for Barca's and Guardiola's success. Muller's greatest prospect is the way he links the attack together but I cant see him as a No.9 he is simply not that profilic.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby AssemFCB » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:01 pm

Could Martinez be Bayern's bomb CB? He's played there for most of the season.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby AssemFCB » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:23 pm

Quaazi's plan seems promising, but it doesn't take into account the difference between La Liga and the more physical and competitive Bundesliga. Barca don't beat Almeria by 8 goals because they're football gods, Almeria lose because they have no talent and determination.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:14 pm

Two Champions League titles make for a convincing argument re: national differences, don't you think?
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCB general » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:12 pm

AssemFCB wrote:Could Martinez be Bayern's bomb CB? He's played there for most of the season.

No, but he could be our Patrick Vieira. :wink:
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby FCB general » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:18 pm

We we look at our squad, we can see how we don't have that no. 10 and 4-3-3 formation would be ideal with Kroos, Schweini and Martinez. Still we need one more player who can sometimes replace first 2 guys we they are suspended or injured. Our squad is currently great for 4-3-3, much more than 4-2-3-1.

We have a great potential to build our squad much stronger in this system. Wings are secured, ST is secured, GK and entire defense, secured. Still one hole in midfield which can be easily covered.
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Payam » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:44 pm

One other question:
With everything Q said; do we also have to implement Pep's system of A.C.D (accelerated contact descension)?
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby quaazi » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:59 pm

Certain elements of the team already do, dear man!
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
-Müller--Müller--Müller--Müller--
-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: 2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby BayernLeb » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:28 pm

FCB general wrote:We we look at our squad, we can see how we don't have that no. 10 and 4-3-3 formation would be ideal with Kroos, Schweini and Martinez. Still we need one more player who can sometimes replace first 2 guys we they are suspended or injured. Our squad is currently great for 4-3-3, much more than 4-2-3-1.
We have a great potential to build our squad much stronger in this system. Wings are secured, ST is secured, GK and entire defense, secured. Still one hole in midfield which can be easily covered.


But still we managed 2 CL finals, so if the system is good enough to reach the final then the problem is not the system but the players and coach actions on that day.

I am not against the 4-3-3 systems but I really dont see us winning trophies with it, again because we dont have a "Messi" to score for us.
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2011/2012 Tactics & formations thread

Postby Firefox1234 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:47 pm

BayernLeb wrote:But still we managed 2 CL finals, so if the system is good enough to reach the final then the problem is not the system but the players and coach actions on that day.

I am not against the 4-3-3 systems but I really dont see us winning trophies with it, again because we dont have a "Messi" to score for us.


I agree i rather not fix sumthin thats not broken and without a Messi type player 4-3-3 wont work to well
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