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English football

Discussions on football in other leagues around Europe.
 

Re: English football

Postby Borusse » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:23 pm

That's why I think Tottenham will fail this season, waaay too many changes to their line-up.
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Re: English football

Postby quaazi » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:28 pm

Spurs and City will start out rough, but the talent in their squads is amazing. Not to mention the quiet and unassuming brilliance of their two managers.
The ideal team

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Re: English football

Postby runaway » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:39 pm

Impact wrote:People are really underrating United right now, even with all the new signings clubs have , they still have to Gel together well enough, look what happened to Spurs against Arsenal, money doesn't buy wins.


Let's see if RVP can carry United again and bring the title. Pray he won't get injured because United will be really f*cked.
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Re: English football

Postby Impact » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:12 pm

runaway wrote:
Impact wrote:People are really underrating United right now, even with all the new signings clubs have , they still have to Gel together well enough, look what happened to Spurs against Arsenal, money doesn't buy wins.


Let's see if RVP can carry United again and bring the title. Pray he won't get injured because United will be really f*cked.

We've won the league without RVP, so we can win it again without him, he didn't carry us, yes he scored goals but that's his job, basically everyone on the whole team scored goals last season.

An update on the Ander Herrara situation:

Athletic Bilbao not so innocent in Herrera to Manchester United collapse, claims Spanish journalist

“What a mess”. Those were the words quickly doing the rounds on Twitter last night when news trickled through that the deal for Ander Herrera was called off. Newly appointed Manchester United CEO Edward Woodward was blamed thousands of times for multiple things, but one word came up more than once: “incompetent”. It's hard not to agree with the accusations, but a question everyone wants answered is “what actually happened?”.

First of all, it's worth nothing that the “three wise men” spotted walking in and out of the LFP (Liga de Fútbol Profesional) headquarters were not impostors, but a group of Bilbao lawyers who had dealt with Athletic Bilbao (especially in the Javi Martinez transfer) before.

Other than talks of the deal breaking down over the release clause, it appears there was an obstacle that even Bayern Munich struggled to overcome when they attempted to sign Javi Martinez.

Lartaun de Arizmendi, a journalist for Cadena COPE (the radio station who first broke the news that Manchester United were interested in Ander Herrera), has revealed in a post on his personal blog that, irregardless of the reported clause, the Herrera deal was near impossible to complete and that Bayern Munich needed external help to force through the Javi Martinez transfer.

He says that after much reflection on the Javi Martinez case, Athletic Bilbao came to realise that the player depositing the cheque on Bayern Munich's behalf (even if Athletic were against the move) wasn't enough to make the deal 100% go through. Once they had discovered this detail, Athletic used it to their advantage and told Bayern Munich that for a unilateral deal like this one to go through, the club has to agree to receive the fee in their bank account.

If Bilbao refuse to receive the money, and there was no obligation for them to do so, the will of the paying club (Bayern Munich) and the player (Javi Martinez) counted for nothing. In order to force the deal to go through, Munich contacted the Financial Council in Bilbao to tell them that this offer was being refused. The Financial Council, who would benefit from this deal going through, pressured Athletic Bilbao in accepting the money by telling them that if they did not do so, they would be required to immediately pay all the debts they owed the Financial Council and would not receive anymore help from them in the future.

It is only after this happened that Athletic Bilbao accepted the offer for Javi Martinez and have the money placed in their bank account.

Returning to the Herrera deal, it appears that there was never any panic on Athletic Bilbao's side and it was reported many times that they were confident the deal would not go through. If what Lartaun de Arizmendi has written is true, Bilbao knew that Manchester United would never have the time to get the Financial Council on their side in time for a similar process to happen.

If Bilbao refused to accept the money in their bank account, this would explain why the three Laffer lawyers were turned away at the LFP headquarters yesterday evening.

Edward Woodward (or whoever was in charge of the deal) was not aware of the loophole exploited by Bayern Munich and why would they be? Athletic Bilbao will have clearly done their best to keep it a secret in order to hold on to their best players.

As we all know, Juventus had to wait an extra year to get Fernando Llorente on a free because they hit a stumbling block similar to the one Manchester United crashed into late last night. Again, if what Lartaun writes is correct (and logically, it seems to be), Juventus would not have known of the Javi Martinez loophole and Bilbao stubbornly refused to accept the money.

Lartaun writes at the bottom of his post: “This is what I have managed to find on the Ander Herrera/MUFC deal. Now, it is up to you to draw your own conclusions as appropriate”.

We will, Lartaun, we will. If what you say is true, perhaps Manchester United are not the only ones to blame for this deal falling through.

http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/...s ... r-united-c
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Re: English football

Postby runaway » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:39 pm

United won the league without RVP but some of the key players are either gone or past their prime. You can't deny that last season, it was RVP that got United the title and had difficulty when he was injured.

Herrara would be making his statement tomorrow, doesn't he? It will be interesting. Hope that he won't get frozen in Bilbao after everything that's happened. Seriously can't believe that United thinks they can negotiate and lower the fee for their player. Are they living in a rock or something?
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Re: English football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:45 pm

Athletic Bilbao are a disgraceful club. They resort to dirty tricks to keep players at the club against their will and have no respect for release clauses and contracts, even if they could refuse the offer legally.

I don't think we ever heard about the Financial Council's involvment before. I remember some pressure from the LFP though. But know this Impact (because as a non-Bayern fan you might not know the entire struggle to sign Martinez). Martinez was only allowed to travel to Munich for a medical after escaping from Bilbao on a midnight flight and subsequently got fined for missing a training session.
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Re: English football

Postby runaway » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:49 pm

It took Bayern months just to sort everything out didn't we? And we had to use the Spanish government to put pressure on Bilbao?
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Re: English football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:56 pm

runaway wrote:It took Bayern months just to sort everything out didn't we? And we had to use the Spanish government to put pressure on Bilbao?

Something like that.

I used to spend every morning and night just reading and posting on the Martinez thread. :mrgreen:
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Re: English football

Postby runaway » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:06 pm

Thinking of getting a player from Athletic should come with a disclaimer. :mrgreen:
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Re: English football

Postby Firefox1234 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:26 pm

Idk why people are counting out Manchester United? Their is a damn good reason why they have the most EPL titles and the liks of Liverpool have been in a drought for more than a decade. Man U may not always have the best start to a season but they come back kings. Im not just talking about 1999 UCL, they dont choke like Chelsea, Man C and Arsenal. Every year Man U has won ive noticed its because another team has choked and missed the boat to beat them. Even though i hate Manchester United with a burning passion i must admit they are a very formidable foe even with a squad as weak as it is right now. Chelsea and Man C have been spending big for years now but have barely put a dent on Man U, remember this is English football you dont neccesarily need a strong midfield to win :mrgreen:
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I put Spurs 6th because i feel like that is way to much change to overcome, even after their spending spree they could never sign a player with the quality of Ozil. They lack that last piece of WC talent each of the teams above them have. Man U:RvP, Chelsea:Mata, Man C:Aguero, Arsenal:Ozil, Liverpool:Suarez. Each of those teams have at least one or more world class player while Spurs atm dont have on since he is at Madrid....
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Re: English football

Postby runaway » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:35 pm

What's totally different this year is, it's not just the top table teams that spent money strengthening their squad. The whole PL spent above 600M pounds. So it might not be a walk in the park against the lower table teams anymore.
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Re: English football

Postby Chalant » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:12 pm

Manchester united were the kings of grindingnout victories, and so were everton. That is why Moyes was picked, and I donthink they will continue grinding out victories. I still disagree with you there firefox, I think this year chelsea will win the EPL. A 'sneaky tenner' on Arsenal being second.
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Re: English football

Postby runaway » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:22 pm

Chalant wrote:Manchester united were the kings of grindingnout victories, and so were everton.


I reckon, Fergie time has got a hand on it.
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Re: English football

Postby MoFattal » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:14 pm

Firefox1234 wrote: Their is a damn good reason why they have the most EPL titles and the liks of Liverpool have been in a drought for more than a decade. Man U may not always have the best start to a season but they come back kings.


However, the SAF factor is now missing. I don't think Moyes can turn a very good squad into a world-class one the way SAF used to.
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Re: English football

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:37 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:Chelsea and Man C have been spending big for years now but have barely put a dent on Man U, remember this is English football you dont neccesarily need a strong midfield to win

Chelsea have won 3 of the last 10 Premier League titles (30%).
Man City have won 1 title from the 4 they've played in since they began to spend big (25%).

Certainly Man United are the undisputed best in the last 10 years, having won 50% of time, but I wouldn't call it "barely a dent".

Like Mo said United now lack the SAF factor. City and Chelsea definitely have better squads, maybe even some others like Tottenham, so it remains to be seen whether Moyes can turn an inferior squad into a winning team. Like him or not, remember that against Chelsea he is not only facing a superior side, but he'll be going head-to-head with one of the best coaches in football today.
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